NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan

[therealtreeman]

I do hunt other states and will continue to do so, but I also still think I should be able to hunt the state in which I live in and pay taxes.  When I want to increase my hunting time I go to other states, I don’t go whining to the DEC that I need longer seasons, i.e. NYS Bowhunters Association, and certain muzzleloader groups. Opening Southern zone bow up on Oct. 1st is rediculas, trophy hunting or meat hunting you are not going to see much in the warm weather. So by asking for the early opener the state is willing but it will come at the cost of putting in a week of gun in the middle of it (youth and muzzleloader). I have had this discussion with NYSBHA and they say they are trying to get women and youth interested by opening during warm weather, I guess it is OK to see nothing but be comfortable, rather than see deer and be a little cold.(that is their argument not mine)
I said it before and I’ll say it again, let the youth start Oct 1 st and get two weeks. First week gun second week archery. At least the deer have a chance to calm back down by time pre rut begins. Also I do agree with antler restrictions, and within three to five years you wont want to shoot a spike or crotch horn. Id also say that those restrictions should not pertain to youth, let them shoot and tag anything, in fact lets leave the small bucks for the kids. Actually Im being far more generous than most, wouldn’t you say Upstatehunter?
As for the comments made about not shooting does or immature bucks, it sounds as if some of you would like to see it law that I cant pass on immature/smaller deer. Look you meat hunters can say what you want but if you are just hunting for meat, and meat alone you really should add up your cost for licenses, travel, equipment, four wheelers (im told every deer hunter needs one) leases ect. and figure out the $/lb. You would be better off just going to the store and buying meat. I know venison is different yada yada yada, but I know guys that say they only hunt to feed their families BS! We can have that argument some other time, but when you figure out the bottom line after all expenses, don’t let your wives know or you wont be buying a license next year!

[stka]

Just because I don't need antlers to impress others doesnt mean im strictly a meat hunter. Your arguing that the state should dictate what i consider a trophy, because you agree with it. I could argue that I'm leaving the big bucks for the people who need them. A real trophy is one you cant see every season. No one is saying you cant pass on small bucks, just don't tell me i have to. I hut two PRIVATE properties that have restrictions and no issue with watching deer walk by, that's how i started hunting. I got tired of watching deer all season and not shooting one. If you think AR will mean you're going to be surrounded by mature bucks it doesn't work that well.

[Raquettedacker]

New member here. 
Just want to comment on the new 5 year plan. I do not like antler restriction. For many reasons. It should be personal CHOICE! The deer herd is thriving in NY and they want to cut back on tags, that me as a lifetime licence holder has already paid for?? One and done, No Way!! How about cutting back on the limitless amount of nusiance permits they hand out??

THIS IS BAD FOR NYS Hunters any which way you slice it! Don't be conned by the anti's....

DG

    Welcome to the site Bowhunter 1261......

[upstatehunter]

I can tell you were brought up by the old school hunters RTM.(as was I)   Deer just don't move when it's warm.... Yeah tell that to the guy in Alabama, who is on stand in November and December when it has cooled off to what 60-80.... I guess those deer that are standing in the fields off the thruway at 4pm in 80 degree weather don't exist. They must have just appeared there.... And don't throw out the baiting of southern states, you are just as able to plant food plots and attract deer to your stand in warm weather as the southern hunter.

Shoot only the bucks!! Yeah lets kill off all the bucks and have thousands of doe go un-bred....Saw it a lot in the early years of my hunting career. Years when we had an early rut and guys were very successful at killing bucks, we had a lot of doe around the next spring with no fawns. Then take into consideration if the winter is severe many of the doe will abort their fawns. You only compound the issue.

No, the meat price per pound would be way to high to shoot a doe...That just doesn't even hold water to me. The guy who is hunting to feed his family, is kidding himself.(most only say it to justify what they shoot) But why is my thinking wrong that I have a trophy at my feet when I shoot a legal deer with either hunting implement I choose, and enjoy reliving a great day in the woods when I eat a back strap off of it. No one really feels they hunt so they won't have to buy meat at all this year. But with the opportunity to take four or more deer, you could make a big dent in the meat costs for a year. The cost of the licenses and to go hunting are more for the experience, and the times spent with family and friends in the field. That justifies it for most. Not the meat...

[howesfc]

Meat hunter first and rack hunter second!

[joe snag]

stka,

Not me, I hate deer drives and wish they were outlawed.

I must say Deer Drives up here in the Adirondacks are a way of life for deer hunters,Thats how I started hunting and didn't know there was another way to hunt till I bought a BP gun and started hunting by myself on weekdays --just in my area there are over 20 deer camps that I know the hunter not to mention about that many who i don't know,in my incorperated Hunting camp alone we have 25 members ,some of these camps have anywheres from 8 to over 40 members up here,add up these people and you have alot of hunter that should have a say in Hunting.....

[ramrod]

based on their last posts.

realtreemans   "i" count.....=19

upstatehunter's "i" count.......=7

just an observation. take from it what you will.

[upstatehunter]

"I" counted 7 in my last post RR.....
 
Grew up the same way Joe....We belonged to a couple clubs, whose members ranged from the local guy looking for a place to hunt. To downstaters, or out of state hunters looking for the same. Large groups would get together and hunt a section of the property, doing drives.
My brother and myself kept the membership after the older generation had decided to quit. We figured out that surrounding the lease property was a lot of good prime state land. We scouted that and found where the deer those groups were pushing headed to hide. Set up "watches" as we called them then.(no stands were used back then) For a good number of years we took good bucks(my brother took some of the best of his career). But alas we weren't able to continue to afford it and raise a family and had to leave. From what I understand, they are mostly vacation camps for rich downstaters, or out of state people now. Not many hunters agree with the rules(separate from the state) that the land owners put into effect. No doe to be killed on Finch Pryun lands. Even though the state gives you the tags to do so. Why pay all that money for a lease when you have to go onto the state lands to use your license as you purchased it?
I agree, we all should have a say in what the state decides on for regulations. Either new ones imposed or old ones done away with/changed.
Your wrong about the pay for ECO's RTM, they are paid from the conservation fund which is collected from license sales among other sources including federal funding.
A quote from the DEC website " Why are the fees for hunting, fishing and trapping licenses being raised?

The license fees are being raised to generate more revenue for the Conservation Fund. For the past two years, there have been insufficient revenues generated from sporting license sales to cover the same level of fish and wildlife management and law enforcement that the Conservation Fund used to support."
 
Seems we all could learn more before we make statements or decisions pertaining to wildlife management, and myself is included in that.

[eyehi]

upstate my hunting club has been going round and round with the doe harvest issue. we pay dues for our lease and have lots of bordering state land. our bilaws state no doe harvest. last meeting i attended a member said people canoe across and take does legaly during muzzelloader and we pay dues and cannot take a doe. how does this make sense? we brought the law up for vote and reversed it to allow members to abide by nys law and take does during muzzleloader. first year a middle age member who rarley hunts shoots a small doe behind his camp. i went down and talked to tim and he was extremly happy with his deer. other members heard of the news and at the next meeting voted to return the bilaws to no doe harvest.  i spoke up and said he shot and tagged a legal animal in accordance with dec law why change the law? makes no sense to me but the people have spoken.

[stka]

For the youth season, they can try whatever they want but I doubt a different season will make any difference. For antler restrictions there is an assumption that all hunters spend a long time in the woods every season and all want big racks. There has to be consideration for all those who buy the licenses. What about the person who only gets to hunt for a day or two every year, they could be ecstatic to get a buck of any size. How about my girlfriend who is just starting in her 30's, should I make her pass on anything? I shot my first in my 20's, it was a spike and was happy as I would have been with a big rack, because I was able to get it before my father left for KS on an antler hunt and had him there with me. There are more than enough people on private property practicing antler management, the state doesn't need to. If you don't like hunting public lands ( I don't), find private land to hunt. It's not easy to find new spots, but they are out there. I've got close to a dozen places I can hunt, not all are prime but some are. Look at my trail cam thread, I have soul permission on two neighboring properties. You have to do the work to get the right spot, it took me years and I'm still always looking/asking.

[stka]

I won't tell anyone they can't do deer drives, but I won't be in rifle range when they do. I find them inherently dangerous, because you are shooting at a running deer surrounded by hunters. I have done small pushes with a few guys I trust, but that is more still hunting your way towards sitters. I still prefer to stand hunt over any other method, you get to see a lot more wildlife that way.

[upstatehunter]

Primarily that is what most drives are today STKA. A still hunt by a few guys, to a another group on watch or stand. Those that do them regularly know where each other are, and where the shoot or no shoot zones are. Most so called accidents the last number of years are a couple guys doing small still hunt pushes to one another. Or a couple guys who take stands early and one gets down/up to go to their friends stand.(without agreement that was going to happen) Not that anything justifies the shooting. But your just as likely to be shot on private land by a poacher who has sneaked in to hunt that land you had permission to be on. Their level of apprehension is heightened already knowing they are where they aren't supposed to be. Again, nothing ever will justify or explain a hunter shooting another person.
But statistically deer drives have never been the most dangerous way to hunt. People tend to align themselves with others that are of the same skill or experience level as themselves. Makes for safer hunting and better hunting. Plus when you do bring the "new kid" in, they have many mentors not just one. Kind of like here, we have a group of people who have aligned together. We respect one another and defend one another. The hope I have is someday we all stand together like that to defend our privileges of enjoying the outdoors. 

[therealtreeman]

Upstate,

I agree I dont know everything, (sorry ramrod for the "I"s ya know its hard not to when you are a self centered elitist) so you are saying that the saleries of the DEC are all taken out of the license fees of sportsmen, and Federal funding? Im not being sarcastic but where does that money (fed funding) get generated from? Kinda nice to know when we call the DEC next time that we are their bosses. But that does prove that the state is trying to generate money and that they need more license sales to do so.
As for the comment on being able to shoot and deer, any size, maybe then we should also allow for any turkey to be shot in spring. I (sorry again Ramrod) have called in a few non bearded gobblers and jakes not to mention hens.  How about size limits on fish, why should we have to release fish that dont measure up to someones standards?

Ramrod   3 "I"s
             1 "Im"

[adkbrookie]

I didn't start hunting until I was in college. When I was younger I considered it several diffenent times, had people that would help me along and all but still didn't do it. From personal experience - it is very difficult to start hunting if your immediate family members do not already. I would probably give up fishing completely if it meant i could hunt deer all year long. That is how much I now love hunting. It is especially difficult when your parents are protective/"scared" of guns. I didn't even know that I could have gotten a .22 for a little over $100 to start me out. And if I had proposed it to my parents when I was in my teens I am pretty sure I would have been in a heap of trouble.... So you guys who see a young person interested in starting out - help them out, it means a ton. Just take them out shooting squirles or something. If someone had done that for me then I bet I'd have found a route around the parents factor. Encouragement goes a long way. And if getting a young person out the first time you try doesn't work out, keep at it, it may only take that one time out there to create a lifelong hunter.

Something I think that could help a lot are 4-H style clubs. Funding is really limited and all but working with the things available and just getting kids together who are interested could move them along. It doesn't have to be lots of shooting. take them scouting, teaching the tactics that you would actually use in the situation. when it snows go and track a deer for a day, for miles and miles so that they learn something real and useful. If they are too young or just aren't shooting yet then invite them along for game recovery when you stick one, and the butchering and dragging out and all that. Creating the network of a club that is flexible could be a part of the solution. In some schools archery programs have been extreemely effective at bettering the students themselves because they are doing something real that gives them focus. Young people today are all screwed up, connecting them to something real can help them to grow into "good" adults.

The youth season sounds like a good idea. Let kids have an easier time getting the first one and as they age they can step up. Not sure on the timing but people will probably be angry whenever they put it. It will not kill bowhunting, if you work with the situation you will still get deer. For instance - Captain JJ bow hunts durring regular gun season and still kills deer. And the easiest time to kill a deer IMO is early bow, when it is warm, plenty of time to develope a pattern with little change in conditions to account for.

Antler restrictions and trophies - people need to decide for themselves what works for them and stop trying to impress their wants on others. As several have already stated, it is about the process of the whole hunt, not the big rack, for them (and me). I am far prouder of the small doe I stillhunted to within ten yards of in a tangled overgrown clearcut than the buck i shot out of a stand. Everyone is looking for something different out of hunting, I won't trample all over your happyness if you leave mine be also.

Hunting can actually be about the meat. It may not be perfectly cost effective when viewed in a direct economic sense but when you add in the enjoyment the hunting brings it seems the monitary cost is offset. I haven't boughten meat other than bacon in 2 years and I believe "vegitables are what food eats". Granted I am only feeding myself. And I take a lot of fish. But if you hunt a lot then you can currently kill a total of 7 or 9 deer if you travel some and transfer DMPs. Not counting early bow. No everyone cannot do that but some can. So figure you can eat about a deer and change every 2 months if you play your cards right and have some time to hunt.

If I am hunting with a friend or more then we do the stillhunt drives to each other. they can work extreemely well, be safe, and are nothing like the brush banging drives others are thinking of. It is a really fun way to hunt, the comrodery is great and certainly can take some skill and careful planing.

[adkbrookie]

Upstate,

I agree I dont know everything, (sorry ramrod for the "I"s ya know its hard not to when you are a self centered elitist) so you are saying that the saleries of the DEC are all taken out of the license fees of sportsmen, and Federal funding? Im not being sarcastic but where does that money (fed funding) get generated from? Kinda nice to know when we call the DEC next time that we are their bosses. But that does prove that the state is trying to generate money and that they need more license sales to do so.
As for the comment on being able to shoot and deer, any size, maybe then we should also allow for any turkey to be shot in spring. I (sorry again Ramrod) have called in a few non bearded gobblers and jakes not to mention hens.  How about size limits on fish, why should we have to release fish that dont measure up to someones standards? Ramrod   3 "I"s
             1 "Im"

population dynamics, maintain what we have. deer populations don't need us to just shoot big bucks to maintain a healthy population. fish are different than deer and some old school management tactics are made to fit fish that don't operate in the same manner as those the model was designed for.