Author Topic: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan  (Read 42906 times)

Offline stka

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #30 on: Jun 16, 2011, 12:14:21 PM »
Maybe it's just me, but I don't think walking the woods and killing a deer is the best introduction to the sport. If a kid doesn't have the patience to spend some time in the woods they aren't going to be life long deer hunters anyway. It's not an instant gratification sport and it shouldn't be. For most people who really appreciate the outdoors the best experiences are often on days when no game is shot, or maybe even seen. I certainly wouldn't want NY to go the way of Texas and let an 8 year old shoot a deer over a pile or corn while sitting at a shooting table in the bed of an pick up. Where's the happy medium? Maybe there isn't one. It would be nice if we could let the parents decide when a kid is ready and how to get them involved, but I'm not confident in a lot of parents out there. I think kids should be introduced to the sport through small game and bird hunting, that's how most of the people I know started. Deer hunting can be boring but squirrel and rabbits can keep a kid interested (and get exercise). I really could go either way on the youth weekend, but I don't think it'll help recruit any more kids. They would be better off trying to educate the antis and the indifferent to the benefits of hunting in general.

Offline drobertsinMaryland

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #31 on: Jun 16, 2011, 01:01:42 PM »

Offline eyehi

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #32 on: Jun 16, 2011, 09:19:06 PM »
Do we stop buying milk because it costs too much? If you dont buy a license out of spite due to license fees, you are petty. Believe me, I dont like the fee increases as much as the next guy but license fees will go up just as costs for everything go up. ...Sounds like life to me. I could not buy a license every year too as where I usually hunt is verly secluded. Trust me, the increase in fees isnt going to bring the state out of the hole, and they know it. As invasives become more prevelant, etc...things cost more to investigate and study and ultimately manage. I'd rather pay more for a license now than have the watters and lands filled with invasives and no fish or wilflife for the next generations.
i buy milk because i dont own cows deer are running wild everywere. i am a lifetime license holder so the fees dont affect me. the state claims less people are buying licences esp seniors. less licences sold means higher fees for the rest of us. :'(

Offline SilentStalker

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #33 on: Jun 17, 2011, 07:04:11 AM »
Who owns the deer? The property owner?, the state?. I'm not asking to be a jerk, I think it is an interesting question and will receive many answers. I personally dont have an answer as I have yet to think too much about that as I dont own any land. You make my point that if the Old Timers are getting out the State better do something, anything to get the eyounger generation in.

Offline upstatehunter

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #34 on: Jun 17, 2011, 07:25:00 AM »
That was well said Bog... ;)
 
Seniors have declined yes, but the largest group were the ones who did qualify for reduced fees and now don't. Also the state has regulated means of transportation in the woods to a point a lot of seniors can't get to where they used to hunt. Why pay your money if you can't enjoy it....
 
From what I have heard and read, we really need to explore these propositions a little longer. We as hunters and huntresses need to voice our opinions to the state, not just a forum on the internet. There may just be a better solution out there from one of us, or at least a compromise that benefits everyone.
The biggest thing I'm hearing is anger if they take tags away, with no reduction of cost. We have to remember that tag issues are done with the health of the population, not the budget. Just because you can tag four deer this year, doesn't guarantee you will be able to next year.
I'm also lobbying hard to have the states license year changed to September 1ST to August 31ST. They start issuing new licenses in August as it is now. The use of last years tags in the northern zone is not warranted any longer. Very few,(still researching it) states allow the use of preceding years tags. If you don't use them you lose them. I also feel they should allow over the counter antler-less in those areas with population control problems, as well as more state help to obtain lands to hunt. Most of the areas in question are tough for outsiders or even residents to get permission to hunt. Yet the land owners are often asking the state to do something about it.
NJ I believe(going on what I was told by a resident a few years ago, don't quote me) had a incentive program for land owners in some spots with population issues. Not sure if our state is in a good enough place to do that.
 To answer that SS, the state does. They regulate the control of the wild animals. And in most cases the domestic the owner may have. Property owner just owns the land, or at least pays for the privilege to call it theirs. 

Offline therealtreeman

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #35 on: Jul 02, 2011, 08:30:06 AM »
Im 51 and I am willing to stop buying NYS licenses and go hunt other states if this new youth and muzzleloader season go through. Reasons, I can afford to do so and I want to shoot trophy bucks. The earlier start is usless because the temps. are too warm and the foliage is too thick. (even at the Oct 15 th start times) I can go on all day about how stupid this youth hunt is from a standpoint of ruining the archery season, not to mention the danger of not being able to see whats behing your target (dense foilage) and the possibilities that Jr shoots dad or grandpa while they are driving deer to the kids. The NYSDEC is showing that they have no clue on how to manage the heard or how to attract new hunters.
The guys I know that have stopped hunting in NY have done so mostly because they cannot afford to drive a hundred miles each way just to find public hunting grounds. Most landowners allow only family or friends to hunt their lands or they want a few thousand to lease a few hundred acres a year, so dont even suggest knocking on doors. Been there done it!
We need to get vocal on this subject and let the state know that the few license sales they gain will be offset by disgruntled archers that will go out of state, or just give it up altogether, due to the lack of deer we will see after the woods are thrashed with gun hunters.

Offline Raquettedacker

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #36 on: Jul 02, 2011, 12:09:47 PM »
Welcome to the site therealtreeman...........   
"Dying is the easy part. Learning how to live is the hard part..."

Offline upstatehunter

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #37 on: Jul 02, 2011, 12:36:39 PM »
Also welcome to the site.
 
I guess you'll have to deal with traveling to other states to hunt. You reasoning of to early doesn't fly, many states start seasons way before we do here. With less accidents. Nothing they do to gain young people to the sport is stupid....There may be ways to tweak it to the best possible solution for everyone. But to call it stupid is narrow minded. They obviously do know something of herd management, as we have gone from a herd of less than 100,000 to over a million deer now.
What about the fact that if there are a few more hunters in the woods, you might see more deer bowhunting. Instead of waiting for a deer to do what you think it should, someone may move one right to you. So that would be a good thing right?
Everyone has their ideas, but it sounds as if you have decided to give up on NYS DEC. So enjoy paying more to do the same....

Offline drobertsinMaryland

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #38 on: Jul 03, 2011, 04:17:20 AM »
Welcome aboard  therealtreeman.

I would just like to add, that there are no Big Bucks in MD. In fact are population of deer is on the decline. ;D

Offline upstatehunter

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #39 on: Jul 04, 2011, 07:40:34 AM »
Only due to your killing them..... ;)
 
Just wanted to say, good points Steve. No one wants to see NY try to be Texas. We simply don't have the large open spaces like they have.
I agree hunting never will be a instant gratification sport, though some do find it that way. I'm just all for giving the kids an easier chance at success. The natural progression of small game to big game is also a good route. A lot of us did that. Probably made us better hunters and more prepared to take a big game animals life.
There is always common ground. What some people opposed may not be thinking is there might not be a young person who would be going to the area they hunt. Might not even affect them. But also those in favor need to understand that those opposed also deserve to not have
their hunting privileges infringed upon. That was why I keep asking for more discussion and working towards a decision we all can live with.

Offline therealtreeman

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #40 on: Jul 04, 2011, 09:32:26 AM »
Yes many states do start earlier, but I do not live there and I do not pay taxes or buy licenses there. Other states allow baiting and hunting with dogs, should NY adopt that too? I could go on about how other states (midwest) have managed their herds form near extintion to the healthiest in North America, and how they have long archery seasons with short gun seasons. But we are taliking NY. I see nothing wrong with youth seasons and my suggestion is give them the Oct 1 st through the 15 th for archery and that ought to keep everyone happy. The problem with that is they will complain that they saw few deer and it was too warm, too buggy, and you cant see more than 30 yds in the woods! The reason there are fewer youth and less older hunters is the price of everything in NY bottom line! If dad cant afford to buy a license (which I think the prices are not great but OK), gas up the car, adding a youth season is not going to change much. I think the state is looking for a huge windfall that isnt going to come. And I stand by my comment that this idea is "stupid".  My original opposition to this plan is that it will disturbe the woods at the time that bow hunting is at its best, and the bucks (all deer) will go nocturnal. Ask any professional whitetail hunter and I know they will agree. I am not a professional and do not claim to be one, but I do know that to be a fact!

Offline therealtreeman

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #41 on: Jul 04, 2011, 10:03:28 AM »
Upstatehunter,

I just read an earlier post by you and I do not know where you are in NY but I hunt the region 8 (southerntier zone) and we do not have a muzzleloader season after archery and before firearms season. So that could be why we disagree on the timing of the youth hunts.  We start archery the first Sat after Columbus day (Oct) and run through the sat before Thanksgiving. Muzzleloader can be used during firearms and has a separate season following the regular firearms. It looks like you are in the northern zone and your Archery starts about a month earlier than ours (Sept). You live in an area that is alot different than where I live, we are confined to smaller areas so much so that rifle hunting isnt allowed (shotgun muzzleloader only) maybe where you are the deer have so much area they can run and not have to go nocturnal, but around here they get real skiddish even when you scout an area. Pressure is too high in this area and adding other pressures is only going to ruin our chances of taking mature bucks.

Offline upstatehunter

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #42 on: Jul 04, 2011, 02:47:01 PM »
I am in the northern zone. It is a lot different than most of the southern zone. But bucks still go nocturnal and the like. Most in these parts get around that by deer drives. I usually try to find where the deer go to avoid these and wait for them to come out. But have shot deer that were pushed to me when others were in the area doing drives. As I have pushed deer to others by trying to get set up close to where they hide. It all works. Someone took the deer they were hunting for.
I do understand the southern zone is different, another reason to keep discussion open on this, as the northern youth hunt may need to be at a different time than the southern. You are correct there.
I guess my age is showing as I would gladly have to work a little harder for the big buck, if it meant there were more youth brought out and into the sport. I have killed a lot of deer in my lifetime, only one has ever graced a wall in the house. Not the main reason I'm out there.
Seeing more than 30 yards during bow season isn't much of a deal to me. Most places here you can't even in December. So I really don't think of that much. Plus as a safety stand point, sometimes seeing further isn't safer. People tend to see what isn't there when they can watch it for a long time. Where if it is just there right in front of you(even if you have heard it coming) tends to make people look more closely at what it is, plus they can see it clearly. Not just an object moving in the distance.
This dialog shows still more time is needed to explore the possibilities.

Offline therealtreeman

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #43 on: Jul 07, 2011, 02:55:30 PM »
Upstate,

Are you a bow hunter? Not looking for any arguuments here, just curoious. I am happy to see that you at least recognize that the two zones in NY are two different cases. I also see we are at two different stages in our hunting lives, you seem content with any deer and I will not shoot anything less than 120". Not to say I wont but I pass on a few bucks that others would gladly take. I spend alot of time scouting throughout the year and take care in all my preperations. The last thing I need is to be waiting on a beast and have six fathers come by kicking the bushes, hootin and hollerin, hoping to drive a deer to Jr. who is sitting a quarter mile away with a slug gun. I think you will agree after that goes on for a week, I can about guarentee I'll be lookin at the leaves for the rest of the season. Again Id be all in favor of a youth bow season early, prior to the archery season, but lets face it the DEC knows it will be a bust and kids will lose interest after they see few deer. I am not alone in my thinking, in fact I know not one archer that thinks this is a good idea. I even know some gun only hunters that think this is pathetic.

Offline stka

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Re: NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan
« Reply #44 on: Jul 07, 2011, 03:00:46 PM »
You sound pretty hung up on driving deer. I'm not quite sure driving deer to a bow hunter would be very productive.

 


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