MyHuntingForum.com
MHF US Northeast => Hunting New York => Topic started by: TRAKNDWG on Jun 14, 2011, 05:03:28 PM
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I just spent 2 days studying the NYS DEC's 57 page 5 year deer management plan. I don't like it a bit. Youth rifle season during bow season, muzzle loader season during bow season, no more either sex tags for bowhunters and muzzle loader hunters, deer management permits to shoot all antlerless deer, and much much more. Don't take my word for it. Read it yourself http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html All this and only 6 weeks to make public comment. Sportsmen had better hollar long and loud for the next 6 weeks or this will be forced on us, like it or not.
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http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html (http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html)
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Welcome to the site TRAKNDWG.. Wish UpState was here to take care of this..
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Welcome to the site TRAKNDWG.. Wish UpState was here to take care of this..
Not sure I understand. I'm new to the site. Is UpState another user with inside knowledge?
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He's one of our most politically active members.
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He's one of our most politically active members.
Thanks Stka
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Not sure I understand. I'm new to the site. Is UpState another user with inside knowledge?
Yes he is a wise individual that has taken a leave of absence from us. Hope he returns sooner than later. From everything I read on here the DEC needs to get there heads out of there butts.
Welcome to the site TRAKNDWG.
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Yes, Upstatehunter is our "watchdog". He is the one who keeps the state on their toes. He is missed on here, but he will be back and "fully charged"....hunts2long
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I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I read the report a couple times as well. I agree with some and disagree with other portions. However, if anyone has any issues with getting the kids involved at an earlier age and bowhunters (or any hunter) having to give up a weekend to faciliate this, then you have major issues and are about as selfish as it gets.
Ok so, the kids go out with rifles during the quiet bow season. I get that it makes the deer skiddish, i do. But if you'd rather keep the kids out of the woods at a time when they have a heightened chance of success, then you are exactly who I do not want to associate with. We are losing hunters everyday and anythinf we can do to get kids involved, then I'm all for it, at my expense even.
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I'm not trying to stir the pot here, but I read the report a couple times as well. I agree with some and disagree with other portions. However, if anyone has any issues with getting the kids involved at an earlier age and bowhunters (or any hunter) having to give up a weekend to faciliate this, then you have major issues and are about as selfish as it gets.
Ok so, the kids go out with rifles during the quiet bow season. I get that it makes the deer skiddish, i do. But if you'd rather keep the kids out of the woods at a time when they have a heightened chance of success, then you are exactly who I do not want to associate with. We are losing hunters everyday and anythinf we can do to get kids involved, then I'm all for it, at my expense even.
ill 2nd that! ;D
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Isn't that why the kids can start bow hunting at a younger age? I don't mind kids gun hunting during the bow season, I do mind that a lot of the deer shot with their tags won't be by kids that week. If they want to overlap seasons like that I'd like to see them go to a check station system and make people lie to someones face. Of course the state can't afford to do that.
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The good old check in station I remember those days.
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I don't think anyone is upset with the kids getting involved. My suggestion was to open the early bow two weeks earlier. Then put the kids special gun season in between the bow and muzzle loader season. That way they get unperturbed animals to hunt, and a shot during the pre rut. Muzzle loader season normally runs during the bow seasons last week. So that would put their gun season after that and before the gun season. Which could be shortened a week. To avoid hunters shooting deer as they start to yard.
I believe we are all for the kids getting out there. I do believe there will be more miss use as they lower the age. A lot of younger children these days aren't all that into their parents pastimes. So I'm sure if they can get them through a class they will be using the kids tags.
But with a completely different season, the only one allowed to have a weapon would be the licensed child.
I have lobbied for public meetings on this matter and not just internet. People will speak their minds more than they will type them... ;)
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Isn't that why the kids can start bow hunting at a younger age? I don't mind kids gun hunting during the bow season, I do mind that a lot of the deer shot with their tags won't be by kids that week.
i heard the same gripe when the youth turkey weekend was put in place. i have yet to run into, or hear a story from any1 who has personally witnessed an adult out hunting without a youth during the youth weekend. i think its foolish to take something away or neglect the majority of law abiding hunters the opportunity to get their kids involved based on the idea that someone else "might" take advantage of it.
i for one am all for any special youth season designed to give them the maximum chance at success, even if it inconveniences any of my seasons. turkey duck or deer. u gotta start em young.
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I do see a number of fathers using the youth weekend to hunt. Had a few brag about a double with their kids... ::)
That said, they are the minority. I'm just advocating a decent time period to evaluate the situation to make everyone happy and to avoid giving hunters a bad name because a few are angry that something is being taken away from them. Though they are probably in the minority, there are people who won't have children hunting. Either from just not having them or the kids just don't want to.
As well as giving the youngsters all the opportunity we can.
I also have taught hunter ed long enough to tell you this. I have seen more 11 and 12 year olds that are far from being ready to take an animals life. Today's kids are far different than the kids of even 30 years ago.
I think the biggest thing most hunters want is a voice. To be involved more with decisions and not have them shoved down their throats.
Have to remember, just cause we have kids and promote kids involvement doesn't mean all will. There are those that are selfish.
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Always a few that will break the rule's. It's unfortunate, but it will happen. Most of us with an ounce of ethic's will try to pass them on to our children and the sooner we start the better. We have 12 year old's with a 16 year old's mindset and the opposite as well. The parent's have to decide when their ready and not look at it as "just another tag to fill".
My .02 cent's worth, I'm not from NY but the issue's don't stop @ the state line.
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Call me old school but I'm not sold on the idea that any group should have special rights or priviledges by virtue of age, sex, race, creed, political view, or whatever. However, assuming a majority of stake holders agree that our youth merits special rights by virtue of their age why not give them the first weekend of gun season instead of plugging them into a special season? Better yet, why not force our DEC and legislature to open the season to 12 year olds and let them hunt the entire season with dad, grandpa, ect.? That's how the rest of us came into the sport. Seems like it worked out OK for us. Frankly I've yet to see a bit of data that supports the notion that special youth seasons do anything to recruit or retain hunters.
Youth season or no youth season how about bow and muzzle loader hunters who have to buy two or three licenses but will only getting one tag for their 3 license purchases? The DEC is not considering the unintended consiquence of their proposal.
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How many deer do we actually have to kill? I buy a muzzle loader tag with the super sportsman every year but hardly if ever have used a tag.
Always still bow hunting. So only having one tag for it makes no difference. I would have to buy a regular license to hunt the regular season anyways.
Special seasons do invite more to try the sport. Look how bow hunting took off when they made a special season for it. Turkey youth season has blossomed into a big deal in a lot of areas. I've already gotten around 10 calls for classes for a new bunch of 12 year old kids.
They will be allowed to hunt the entire season, but following regular season rules. Just like with junior archery hunters. They may take a doe in the special archery, but also may hunt in the regular season with their parent or guardian. But have to follow regular season rules with buck only. So That would be no different for them.
I learned old school as well, and remember being really discouraged as I had to learn to bow hunt during the regular season with a buck only tag. Didn't really enthusiastically pursue it until they opened the special archery season. Why not skip that with today's kids? They are very immediate success oriented. They want results right out of the gate(or restart the game ;)) Some will learn to have the determination we did from our fathers. Most will try it and if we make it to hard, quit. We gained nothing.
But all need to voice their opinions. Why I am pushing for a traveling meeting. So we have that chance.
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i agree with trkndawg that they should allow the youths to hunt the entire season with adult supervision. why not let them expierience the rut and the thrill of tracking a deer in the snow. we all know that anything can happen during that special time in november so why not share that with the youth hunters?: we as hunters all look forward to the rut ;D
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They will be allowed to hunt the entire season. They are only proposing a 3 day youth hunt for them to allow them that time to be in the woods when it is less pressured. That would run concurrent with the bow season on Columbus weekend. We would lose no hunting days, those that have no kids can still be bow hunting.
The reason I'm pushing for more meetings on the issues is this, they held them(20) and around 1000 of us attended them. They list over 1000, but very little over. Plus most people didn't even see the request for suggestions online. They need to advertise the meetings better, one way would be online through sites like these, and keep discussion requests on the front page of the site. They get pushed back as the seasons change and NY sportspeople move onto other interests.
http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/draftdeerplan0611.pdf (http://www.dec.ny.gov/docs/wildlife_pdf/draftdeerplan0611.pdf)
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Call me old school but
your oldschool but !
parents of yesteryear didnt have to encourage their children to hunt. they did it because they wanted to. it was tradition and a way of life. there was no competition w video games, computers, 30 diff school activities, blah blah blah. times have changed and everyone must adapt to this in order to captivate their young overloaded minds. im guessing your father didnt log on to the internet to talk about fishing and hunting when he was your age. he went to the barbershop, diner, bar, and read outdoor life. but you have obviously adapted in that regard. think about it, its an ever changing world in every aspect of life and people cant progress if no one is willing to accept change.
. Frankly I've yet to see a bit of data that supports the notion that special youth seasons do anything to recruit or retain hunters.
then try taking a youth out during a youth hunt. youll see all the data you need once he/she pulls the trigger ;)
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your oldschool but !
parents of yesteryear didnt have to encourage their children to hunt. they did it because they wanted to. it was tradition and a way of life. there was no competition w video games, computers, 30 diff school activities, blah blah blah. times have changed and everyone must adapt to this in order to captivate their young overloaded minds. im guessing your father didnt log on to the internet to talk about fishing and hunting when he was your age. he went to the barbershop, diner, bar, and read outdoor life. but you have obviously adapted in that regard. think about it, its an ever changing world in every aspect of life and people cant progress if no one is willing to accept change.
then try taking a youth out during a youth hunt. youll see all the data you need once he/she pulls the trigger ;)
Common Ramrod, I can't let you off with an emotion driven statement like that "...all the data you need..." Data is data, emotion is emotion. I have been teaching kids to hunt for over 4 decades. I taught hunter and bowhunter education for 25 years, I have participated in the NYS Hunter Mentor program, not to mention my own family and camp hunting experiences. I've shared that wonderful moment of 'firsts' with many, many, new hunters. I still want to see the data. I can't argue with your points on hunting competition with many other diversions I just wonder if providing special rights to youth is the answer. Truthfully, I don't think it is. What kind of a message is this sending to kids; you are special because you are 12. Really? How so?
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Call me old school but I'm not sold on the idea that any group should have special rights or priviledges by virtue of age, sex, race, creed, political view, or whatever. However, assuming a majority of stake holders agree that our youth merits special rights by virtue of their age why not give them the first weekend of gun season instead of plugging them into a special season? Better yet, why not force our DEC and legislature to open the season to 12 year olds and let them hunt the entire season with dad, grandpa, ect.? That's how the rest of us came into the sport. Seems like it worked out OK for us. Frankly I've yet to see a bit of data that supports the notion that special youth seasons do anything to recruit or retain hunters.
If this is true then there should be no bow season for the bow group followed by a gun season for the gun group and a final ML season for the ML group? It should be a free for all? I highly doubt it would make the bowhunters happy with billy bob squaring off at a buck 200 yards away and popping a few off while you waited patiently as the deer made his way toward your bow stand. Its not that kids deserve special rights, its about affording them opportunities and a better chance at harvest and success in the field. Unfortunately, kids are all about the here and now. I'm still young but I know enough that immediate gratification may draw people to something rather than the rewards of being patient that we all know happen. If this is what it takes to draw the kids in, then so be it. Gotta change with the times.
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i also feel the dec is looking at the decline in hunting licences sold. they need to recruit young hunters so they can keep making money. the prices of licences keep going up and they wonder why they are selling fewer permits. certain hunters are tired of price hikes and refuse to pay the new fees it doesnt mean less people are hunting it means less people are hunting legally. :o i spoke with a guy at a boat launch the other day and he told me he was done with nys and the increased license fees. he said i live in the country and own several hundred acres i hunt behind my house and no one bothers me the dec can keep there tag and i will keep my venison.
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and he will be the first one to call the dec when someone "poaches" one of "his" deer and wonder why it took an officer 4 hours to get there. :o
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Do we stop buying milk because it costs too much? If you dont buy a license out of spite due to license fees, you are petty. Believe me, I dont like the fee increases as much as the next guy but license fees will go up just as costs for everything go up. ...Sounds like life to me. I could not buy a license every year too as where I usually hunt is verly secluded. Trust me, the increase in fees isnt going to bring the state out of the hole, and they know it. As invasives become more prevelant, etc...things cost more to investigate and study and ultimately manage. I'd rather pay more for a license now than have the watters and lands filled with invasives and no fish or wilflife for the next generations.
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Common Ramrod, I can't let you off with an emotion driven statement like that "...all the data you need..." Data is data, emotion is emotion. I have been teaching kids to hunt for over 4 decades. I taught hunter and bowhunter education for 25 years, I have participated in the NYS Hunter Mentor program, not to mention my own family and camp hunting experiences. I've shared that wonderful moment of 'firsts' with many, many, new hunters. I still want to see the data. I can't argue with your points on hunting competition with many other diversions I just wonder if providing special rights to youth is the answer. Truthfully, I don't think it is. What kind of a message is this sending to kids; you are special because you are 12. Really? How so?
i commend you on your dedication and all of the years you have spent educating and volunteering your time.
i Just dont understand why you would be against anything that is designed to encourage youth participation? With todays crazy busy lifestyles we all live, i think its important to acknowledge that kids are special, and that they are worthy of your time and undivided attention.
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Isn't the point of a youth season to increase the odds that they're successful so they will be more likely to stick with it? I think the message is, These few day's are all about you and your growth and success as a future steward of our sport. Treasure this time that has been set aside for you as a new sportsman. Let's let them know how fortunate they are to have this opportunity and make the most of it.
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Isn't the point of a youth season to increase the odds that they're successful so they will be more likely to stick with it? I think the message is, These few day's are all about you and your growth and success as a future steward of our sport. Treasure this time that has been set aside for you as a new sportsman. Let's let them know how fortunate they are to have this opportunity and make the most of it.
Well put Bogger
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your much better at transforming my thought into words ;D
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Maybe it's just me, but I don't think walking the woods and killing a deer is the best introduction to the sport. If a kid doesn't have the patience to spend some time in the woods they aren't going to be life long deer hunters anyway. It's not an instant gratification sport and it shouldn't be. For most people who really appreciate the outdoors the best experiences are often on days when no game is shot, or maybe even seen. I certainly wouldn't want NY to go the way of Texas and let an 8 year old shoot a deer over a pile or corn while sitting at a shooting table in the bed of an pick up. Where's the happy medium? Maybe there isn't one. It would be nice if we could let the parents decide when a kid is ready and how to get them involved, but I'm not confident in a lot of parents out there. I think kids should be introduced to the sport through small game and bird hunting, that's how most of the people I know started. Deer hunting can be boring but squirrel and rabbits can keep a kid interested (and get exercise). I really could go either way on the youth weekend, but I don't think it'll help recruit any more kids. They would be better off trying to educate the antis and the indifferent to the benefits of hunting in general.
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(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/popcorn-1.gif) (http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/popcorn-1.gif)(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/popcorn-1.gif)
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Do we stop buying milk because it costs too much? If you dont buy a license out of spite due to license fees, you are petty. Believe me, I dont like the fee increases as much as the next guy but license fees will go up just as costs for everything go up. ...Sounds like life to me. I could not buy a license every year too as where I usually hunt is verly secluded. Trust me, the increase in fees isnt going to bring the state out of the hole, and they know it. As invasives become more prevelant, etc...things cost more to investigate and study and ultimately manage. I'd rather pay more for a license now than have the watters and lands filled with invasives and no fish or wilflife for the next generations.
i buy milk because i dont own cows deer are running wild everywere. i am a lifetime license holder so the fees dont affect me. the state claims less people are buying licences esp seniors. less licences sold means higher fees for the rest of us. :'(
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Who owns the deer? The property owner?, the state?. I'm not asking to be a jerk, I think it is an interesting question and will receive many answers. I personally dont have an answer as I have yet to think too much about that as I dont own any land. You make my point that if the Old Timers are getting out the State better do something, anything to get the eyounger generation in.
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That was well said Bog... ;)
Seniors have declined yes, but the largest group were the ones who did qualify for reduced fees and now don't. Also the state has regulated means of transportation in the woods to a point a lot of seniors can't get to where they used to hunt. Why pay your money if you can't enjoy it....
From what I have heard and read, we really need to explore these propositions a little longer. We as hunters and huntresses need to voice our opinions to the state, not just a forum on the internet. There may just be a better solution out there from one of us, or at least a compromise that benefits everyone.
The biggest thing I'm hearing is anger if they take tags away, with no reduction of cost. We have to remember that tag issues are done with the health of the population, not the budget. Just because you can tag four deer this year, doesn't guarantee you will be able to next year.
I'm also lobbying hard to have the states license year changed to September 1ST to August 31ST. They start issuing new licenses in August as it is now. The use of last years tags in the northern zone is not warranted any longer. Very few,(still researching it) states allow the use of preceding years tags. If you don't use them you lose them. I also feel they should allow over the counter antler-less in those areas with population control problems, as well as more state help to obtain lands to hunt. Most of the areas in question are tough for outsiders or even residents to get permission to hunt. Yet the land owners are often asking the state to do something about it.
NJ I believe(going on what I was told by a resident a few years ago, don't quote me) had a incentive program for land owners in some spots with population issues. Not sure if our state is in a good enough place to do that.
To answer that SS, the state does. They regulate the control of the wild animals. And in most cases the domestic the owner may have. Property owner just owns the land, or at least pays for the privilege to call it theirs.
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Im 51 and I am willing to stop buying NYS licenses and go hunt other states if this new youth and muzzleloader season go through. Reasons, I can afford to do so and I want to shoot trophy bucks. The earlier start is usless because the temps. are too warm and the foliage is too thick. (even at the Oct 15 th start times) I can go on all day about how stupid this youth hunt is from a standpoint of ruining the archery season, not to mention the danger of not being able to see whats behing your target (dense foilage) and the possibilities that Jr shoots dad or grandpa while they are driving deer to the kids. The NYSDEC is showing that they have no clue on how to manage the heard or how to attract new hunters.
The guys I know that have stopped hunting in NY have done so mostly because they cannot afford to drive a hundred miles each way just to find public hunting grounds. Most landowners allow only family or friends to hunt their lands or they want a few thousand to lease a few hundred acres a year, so dont even suggest knocking on doors. Been there done it!
We need to get vocal on this subject and let the state know that the few license sales they gain will be offset by disgruntled archers that will go out of state, or just give it up altogether, due to the lack of deer we will see after the woods are thrashed with gun hunters.
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Welcome to the site therealtreeman...........
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Also welcome to the site.
I guess you'll have to deal with traveling to other states to hunt. You reasoning of to early doesn't fly, many states start seasons way before we do here. With less accidents. Nothing they do to gain young people to the sport is stupid....There may be ways to tweak it to the best possible solution for everyone. But to call it stupid is narrow minded. They obviously do know something of herd management, as we have gone from a herd of less than 100,000 to over a million deer now.
What about the fact that if there are a few more hunters in the woods, you might see more deer bowhunting. Instead of waiting for a deer to do what you think it should, someone may move one right to you. So that would be a good thing right?
Everyone has their ideas, but it sounds as if you have decided to give up on NYS DEC. So enjoy paying more to do the same....
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Welcome aboard therealtreeman.
I would just like to add, that there are no Big Bucks in MD. In fact are population of deer is on the decline. ;D
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Only due to your killing them..... ;)
Just wanted to say, good points Steve. No one wants to see NY try to be Texas. We simply don't have the large open spaces like they have.
I agree hunting never will be a instant gratification sport, though some do find it that way. I'm just all for giving the kids an easier chance at success. The natural progression of small game to big game is also a good route. A lot of us did that. Probably made us better hunters and more prepared to take a big game animals life.
There is always common ground. What some people opposed may not be thinking is there might not be a young person who would be going to the area they hunt. Might not even affect them. But also those in favor need to understand that those opposed also deserve to not have
their hunting privileges infringed upon. That was why I keep asking for more discussion and working towards a decision we all can live with.
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Yes many states do start earlier, but I do not live there and I do not pay taxes or buy licenses there. Other states allow baiting and hunting with dogs, should NY adopt that too? I could go on about how other states (midwest) have managed their herds form near extintion to the healthiest in North America, and how they have long archery seasons with short gun seasons. But we are taliking NY. I see nothing wrong with youth seasons and my suggestion is give them the Oct 1 st through the 15 th for archery and that ought to keep everyone happy. The problem with that is they will complain that they saw few deer and it was too warm, too buggy, and you cant see more than 30 yds in the woods! The reason there are fewer youth and less older hunters is the price of everything in NY bottom line! If dad cant afford to buy a license (which I think the prices are not great but OK), gas up the car, adding a youth season is not going to change much. I think the state is looking for a huge windfall that isnt going to come. And I stand by my comment that this idea is "stupid". My original opposition to this plan is that it will disturbe the woods at the time that bow hunting is at its best, and the bucks (all deer) will go nocturnal. Ask any professional whitetail hunter and I know they will agree. I am not a professional and do not claim to be one, but I do know that to be a fact!
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Upstatehunter,
I just read an earlier post by you and I do not know where you are in NY but I hunt the region 8 (southerntier zone) and we do not have a muzzleloader season after archery and before firearms season. So that could be why we disagree on the timing of the youth hunts. We start archery the first Sat after Columbus day (Oct) and run through the sat before Thanksgiving. Muzzleloader can be used during firearms and has a separate season following the regular firearms. It looks like you are in the northern zone and your Archery starts about a month earlier than ours (Sept). You live in an area that is alot different than where I live, we are confined to smaller areas so much so that rifle hunting isnt allowed (shotgun muzzleloader only) maybe where you are the deer have so much area they can run and not have to go nocturnal, but around here they get real skiddish even when you scout an area. Pressure is too high in this area and adding other pressures is only going to ruin our chances of taking mature bucks.
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I am in the northern zone. It is a lot different than most of the southern zone. But bucks still go nocturnal and the like. Most in these parts get around that by deer drives. I usually try to find where the deer go to avoid these and wait for them to come out. But have shot deer that were pushed to me when others were in the area doing drives. As I have pushed deer to others by trying to get set up close to where they hide. It all works. Someone took the deer they were hunting for.
I do understand the southern zone is different, another reason to keep discussion open on this, as the northern youth hunt may need to be at a different time than the southern. You are correct there.
I guess my age is showing as I would gladly have to work a little harder for the big buck, if it meant there were more youth brought out and into the sport. I have killed a lot of deer in my lifetime, only one has ever graced a wall in the house. Not the main reason I'm out there.
Seeing more than 30 yards during bow season isn't much of a deal to me. Most places here you can't even in December. So I really don't think of that much. Plus as a safety stand point, sometimes seeing further isn't safer. People tend to see what isn't there when they can watch it for a long time. Where if it is just there right in front of you(even if you have heard it coming) tends to make people look more closely at what it is, plus they can see it clearly. Not just an object moving in the distance.
This dialog shows still more time is needed to explore the possibilities.
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Upstate,
Are you a bow hunter? Not looking for any arguuments here, just curoious. I am happy to see that you at least recognize that the two zones in NY are two different cases. I also see we are at two different stages in our hunting lives, you seem content with any deer and I will not shoot anything less than 120". Not to say I wont but I pass on a few bucks that others would gladly take. I spend alot of time scouting throughout the year and take care in all my preperations. The last thing I need is to be waiting on a beast and have six fathers come by kicking the bushes, hootin and hollerin, hoping to drive a deer to Jr. who is sitting a quarter mile away with a slug gun. I think you will agree after that goes on for a week, I can about guarentee I'll be lookin at the leaves for the rest of the season. Again Id be all in favor of a youth bow season early, prior to the archery season, but lets face it the DEC knows it will be a bust and kids will lose interest after they see few deer. I am not alone in my thinking, in fact I know not one archer that thinks this is a good idea. I even know some gun only hunters that think this is pathetic.
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You sound pretty hung up on driving deer. I'm not quite sure driving deer to a bow hunter would be very productive.
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I have bow hunted since 1980. Taught bow hunter education since 1996. Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point.(not that I haven't tried to shoot smaller) Had coyotes get the last two bucks I shot with my bow. Called the tag in as a kill. But during gun season, I let the smaller bucks go when I see them. Even though where I am you might only see one. Raised my kids to hunt and fish. Daughter bow hunted until she went off to college. Now she is busy with her family. My son still hunts every year with me, he is 20.
I gave up a lot of deer trying to get them one. When my son was standing over his first kill, was one of the proudest days of my life.
We are only a year different in age if your 51. As far as my hunting career, I don't measure success by the number of inches on a deers head.
But by the quality of the time spent trying to harvest the animal. The last two years have been way down in populations here by me, and I saw four deer in two years. But will keep buying my license, and if a young person wants to go will do anything I can do to help that happen.
So yes, if I'm on stand and a group of fathers goes by driving deer to their sons it would most likely ruin my hunt, though have shot deer when others went through and the deer skirted them and tried to get out. But if one of the kids got a deer, that disappointment would be short lived. The kid deserves the deer as much as I do. Maybe more....
But that scenario is not likely to play out here. Nor most places I would figure. As most mentors of the young hunters try mostly to set them up in a stand or blind and wait for deer, just as the bow hunter does.
Again, different opinions means more discussion is warranted.
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I will not shoot anything less than 120". Not to say I wont but I pass on a few bucks that others would gladly take.
Let's see some pics of your 100 plus inchers.
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I'm so glad i dont have to contend with the self centered lot of elitist the southern tier seems to be full of.
if your so concerned w dads ruining your hunt then buy/lease your own land like everyone else
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stka,
Not me, I hate deer drives and wish they were outlawed.
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Ramrod,
So now I am a Southerntier elitist? I was making an obsevation based on what we see happen every year during gun season. Truckloads of hunters drive the raods for about a half mile deep into the woods. Every deer for the next few miles runs off the state lands onto privite property. These guys shoot at everyting on the roads or in the woods, so much so they even shot one of their own last year. The same DEC that came up with this "5 year plan" refuses to do anything about enforcing the laws. Gun hunters complain they dont see the deer, yet I know there are plenty, I run trail cams from July to Nov and I have thousands of pics to prove they are there. Why should I lease/buy? Do I need to shell out more cash, I mean afterall thats the whole point of NY to get more hunters so they can sell more licenses. All I am saying is that it is going to impact archers success if you throw a gun season for youth followed by a muzzleloader season in the middle of the archery season. Obviously you own/lease thousands of acres (who is the elitist?) and this will not affect you, so maybe its best that reserve your insults to subject matter that pertains to you. I came here to voice my opinion and hear what others have to say because it is a real concern and alot of NY hunters feel as I do, I did not come here to be be insulted.
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Anything that can be done to get more young people into the sport of hunting, I am for. We just don't see a lot of kids in the woods anymore...I only have hunted in the Northren Zone (State Land). Back when I started hunting ('50s) it was almost all drives and most kids hunted with their dads. Today you don't see many people making drives, also not many kids. As the older hunters stopped hunting it became fewer and fewer hunters. We then hunted with 3 or 4 people. I now hunt alone most of the time, as my two girls never got into hunting. I think the cost of hunting is one of the least expensive, yet the most enjoyed hobby that I have. I like it when I see or hear of a father, grandfather, or uncle taking the kids out into the woods. As far as the timing of the youth hunt, I see no problem. In todays world there are people in the woods all the time. Cutting firewood, hiking, bird season, scouting, etc. We have to learn that it is a whole new world around us....ADAPT....hunts2long
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Very well said H2L...I see very few big drives here, maybe a couple guys doing small pushes to one another.
There have been road hunters for 100 years, and will be as long as there are roads with deer along them. My response to what DEC should be doing with them is this. If we continue to loose the young to other interests, in a short number of years DEC will have even less money to hire Eco's to patrol. Or they will double the license fee to cover expenses.
TV has had a very noticeable effect on hunters. They shoot only the biggest, most mature animal of the area. I'm still on the fence that is the true right way to go. Why not leave that animal to continue genes, and shoot the smaller buck or take the doe with your permits?
The state is still saying we have problems with over population in some areas. Two things with this, they are in the southern zone...Which in NY, there isn't a lot of difference in weather conditions. The snow pack may not be as high, but temps are still low with wind chills.
Is the problem with the access to land to hunt? Or is it simply that families don't hunt any longer. Not sure. But as hunters we have the best means to help the state with the problem, but we seem to find fault with the rules we have to follow to do so.
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Gents,
I am on board with alot of what you are saying and I am not against getting more kids interested in the sport, I just do not feel that it should come at the expense of those that already enjoy the sport. I am not just concerned with the three days of youth hunt in the heart of archery season, there is the 4 additional days of muzzleloader following. That makes a solid week of disturbance. If you a really think that there is little to no impact on deer movement when hunters take to the woods, first off you are dead wrong, and second, why then has the bow season always been prior to the gun season? In short no one would buy an archery tag if they had to take to the woods after the gun season.
I was comparing the northern and southern zone proposals and one huge difference is the northern zone will only have the three day youth hunt. They do not follow it with the muzzleloader proposal. I personally think the youth hunt is not going to produce many more youth than normal, all those distractions they talk of that they feel keep youth from starting hunting, are still going to be there on Columbus Day weekend. There have been efforts to get kids interested and if they havnt worked so far what makes you think adding another benifit will swing the tide? When I started bow the age was 16 it is now 14 and they just lowered it to 12. Lets see how the numbers are this year. As for ECO's their pay is not based on license sales, this is NY, they could outlaw hunting and fishing alltogether and those jobs would still be there. There is a clear and definate opposition to this part of the 5 year plan what good is going to do if you drive away the current archers just to add possibly a few new ones?
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New member here.
Just want to comment on the new 5 year plan. I do not like antler restriction. For many reasons. It should be personal CHOICE! The deer herd is thriving in NY and they want to cut back on tags, that me as a lifetime licence holder has already paid for?? One and done, No Way!! How about cutting back on the limitless amount of nusiance permits they hand out??
THIS IS BAD FOR NYS Hunters any which way you slice it! Don't be conned by the anti's....
DG
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The over populated deer are mainly in large suburban areas I think, and yes the biggest reason is a lack of access. Most farm land gets hunted at least moderately, farmers are typically pro hunting as game costs them money. The truth is the growing number of trophy hunters will not help control the population. I know hunters that will not shoot a doe or a small buck, and most of them see deer almost every time they're on stand. This is why I keep saying the state needs to invest in educating the general public to the need of population control and hunting. And don't get me going on antler restrictions, the state should stay out of bone management. That would drive more people away from buying licenses than any new season will recruit them. Think about the guys that hunt in low deer areas, should they have to pass the only buck they see in a season (or three) because just because some one else doesn't think it's impressive? BS.
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stka,
You are right on the money.....
I have sent my email to the DEC letting them know what I think of the plan. I hope others will do the same so we keep our freedom of choice. You can't eat the rack!
DG
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I forgot to add welcome to the site Bowhunter 1261.
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welcome aboard bowhunter1261. :)
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Realtreeman said "There have been efforts to get kids interested and if they havnt worked so far what makes you think adding another benifit will swing the tide?"
So we just give up? We admit defeat and let things play out as they will, just as long as it doesn't effect your hunting. You started out by saying you would rather hunt in other states now anyways. Why are you worrying that other hunters will ruin your hunt in NY then?
This whole thread is why for years the state just changed the regulations as they saw fit. They knew that anything they did was going to upset some, and be applauded by others. I'm actually leaning towards them going back to that. I spent a lot of years, taking my own time to go to Albany to lobby for our freedom to enjoy our privileges. When the right person presented something to our representatives, it was actually taken into account and discussed. But on a whole, there was a lot of eye rolling and quiet laughter from them because the person talking to them had no clue or represented us in a very bad light. So they started the polls and traveling town meeting style of gathering opinions. Yet the vast majority of our ranks will sit at the coffee shop or camp table or internet forum and gripe and complain about what they propose, and never offer to contact them or attend. Plus really don't have a viable alternative solution to what they disagree with. Then they scream when the regulation is put in place. Why not skip all that and just go to the screaming?
I've never been a fan of antler restrictions, yet once again the shows people watch on the tube show them it's the way to go. So when the state offers it up, people file behind their leadership. It's what they have seen on TV. Whether self imposed or a regulation. I still feel the earn a buck tag program would work. Other states have had great success with it. Fill your doe tag, then you may purchase or use your buck tag. I've had some interesting conversations with those that make recommendations to the state DEC as to what seasons or tags to allow. One person said when asked why we can't use that either sex tag during the regular season in the northern zone, well to many people would get shot. If the hunter doesn't have to see antlers, they would just shoot. ::)
So your saying our hunter education system is a complete failure?(my next question) He said why do you say that? ::) I said well the southern zone hunter can use a DMP during the regular season, does that increase the shootings of other hunters? Or are the S.Z hunters more expendable than the N.Z...OH that's right, we have more trees and foliage. We can't see what we are shooting at as well.... ::) It really is a wonder any of the youth actually learn to be safe hunters, seeing that we are so dang uneducated to target recognition. The bottom line is....
They want you to pay for the tags, but if you can't or don't use them in the bow or muzzle loader season, or the start of the next years bow season you lose them. Wrong! Why not allow them to be used during any season? But limit them. You get two tags, either sex and buck only. Those tags are good in what ever season you chose to hunt.(with the proper license to do so) The "educated" person then stated it was far more easy for people to shoot a doe in the regular season than it was the bow or ML. :o Really, so the state wants you to shoot a doe to help control population, yet only if it is hard to do so? Then he switched gears to, well if you were taking a doe in the regular season(with a gun) it might be pregnant....OK so let's explore that. That doe wouldn't have a better chance of being bred in the late ML season in December? Yet we can use our either sex tag then....
Only in some areas he says....OK so if I shot the same doe on that tag in the first week of November, would it have a better chance of being bred than if I shot it the third week of December on my ML tag? Not to mention, I wouldn't have a tag for the late ML season now, I used it already. So what we fight most of the time, is either a biologist or someone else working in the state DEC who makes recommendations to them as to what tags to offer, where, when, that really doesn't have more knowledge than we do. Time for us to go to the meetings, make the time! Write clear, concise letters to them.(not a rant) Those generally will get dismissed and thrown out or deleted.
Sorry to get so far off the path here, but I tend to do that sometimes.... 8)
Not saying what you believe isn't your right Realtreeman. I truly hope a compromise that allows the youth to get in the field and learn to hunt, and you get to do what you love to do and enjoy success at it.
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i am not surewhen if i am for or against the regulation changes. i surely am against antler restrictions as i feel the hunter should have the choice of what to shoot. i am for getting youth hunters in the woods earlier however i dont know if this tactic will help recruit new hunters. i feel if a child enjoys the outdoors and is raised in a family of hunters he will take up the sport regardless of a youth season. my girlfriends son told her recently he does not want to hunt and is nervous about telling his father and myself. he will be 13 this summer and i knew he did not enjoy hunting. he can still enjoy the outdoors by fishing, four weeling etc. what bugs me is his father is the type of person who will insist his son hunts with him. i hope the youth season does not become several kids out there just to make dad happy when in reality they would rather be home. i just dont know if the early youth season is the answer :-\
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I do hunt other states and will continue to do so, but I also still think I should be able to hunt the state in which I live in and pay taxes. When I want to increase my hunting time I go to other states, I don’t go whining to the DEC that I need longer seasons, i.e. NYS Bowhunters Association, and certain muzzleloader groups. Opening Southern zone bow up on Oct. 1st is rediculas, trophy hunting or meat hunting you are not going to see much in the warm weather. So by asking for the early opener the state is willing but it will come at the cost of putting in a week of gun in the middle of it (youth and muzzleloader). I have had this discussion with NYSBHA and they say they are trying to get women and youth interested by opening during warm weather, I guess it is OK to see nothing but be comfortable, rather than see deer and be a little cold.(that is their argument not mine)
I said it before and I’ll say it again, let the youth start Oct 1 st and get two weeks. First week gun second week archery. At least the deer have a chance to calm back down by time pre rut begins. Also I do agree with antler restrictions, and within three to five years you wont want to shoot a spike or crotch horn. Id also say that those restrictions should not pertain to youth, let them shoot and tag anything, in fact lets leave the small bucks for the kids. Actually Im being far more generous than most, wouldn’t you say Upstatehunter?
As for the comments made about not shooting does or immature bucks, it sounds as if some of you would like to see it law that I cant pass on immature/smaller deer. Look you meat hunters can say what you want but if you are just hunting for meat, and meat alone you really should add up your cost for licenses, travel, equipment, four wheelers (im told every deer hunter needs one) leases ect. and figure out the $/lb. You would be better off just going to the store and buying meat. I know venison is different yada yada yada, but I know guys that say they only hunt to feed their families BS! We can have that argument some other time, but when you figure out the bottom line after all expenses, don’t let your wives know or you wont be buying a license next year!
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Just because I don't need antlers to impress others doesnt mean im strictly a meat hunter. Your arguing that the state should dictate what i consider a trophy, because you agree with it. I could argue that I'm leaving the big bucks for the people who need them. A real trophy is one you cant see every season. No one is saying you cant pass on small bucks, just don't tell me i have to. I hut two PRIVATE properties that have restrictions and no issue with watching deer walk by, that's how i started hunting. I got tired of watching deer all season and not shooting one. If you think AR will mean you're going to be surrounded by mature bucks it doesn't work that well.
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New member here.
Just want to comment on the new 5 year plan. I do not like antler restriction. For many reasons. It should be personal CHOICE! The deer herd is thriving in NY and they want to cut back on tags, that me as a lifetime licence holder has already paid for?? One and done, No Way!! How about cutting back on the limitless amount of nusiance permits they hand out??
THIS IS BAD FOR NYS Hunters any which way you slice it! Don't be conned by the anti's....
DG
Welcome to the site Bowhunter 1261......
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I can tell you were brought up by the old school hunters RTM.(as was I) Deer just don't move when it's warm.... ::) Yeah tell that to the guy in Alabama, who is on stand in November and December when it has cooled off to what 60-80.... ::) I guess those deer that are standing in the fields off the thruway at 4pm in 80 degree weather don't exist. They must have just appeared there.... ::) And don't throw out the baiting of southern states, you are just as able to plant food plots and attract deer to your stand in warm weather as the southern hunter.
Shoot only the bucks!! Yeah lets kill off all the bucks and have thousands of doe go un-bred....Saw it a lot in the early years of my hunting career. Years when we had an early rut and guys were very successful at killing bucks, we had a lot of doe around the next spring with no fawns. Then take into consideration if the winter is severe many of the doe will abort their fawns. You only compound the issue.
No, the meat price per pound would be way to high to shoot a doe...That just doesn't even hold water to me. The guy who is hunting to feed his family, is kidding himself.(most only say it to justify what they shoot) But why is my thinking wrong that I have a trophy at my feet when I shoot a legal deer with either hunting implement I choose, and enjoy reliving a great day in the woods when I eat a back strap off of it. No one really feels they hunt so they won't have to buy meat at all this year. But with the opportunity to take four or more deer, you could make a big dent in the meat costs for a year. The cost of the licenses and to go hunting are more for the experience, and the times spent with family and friends in the field. That justifies it for most. Not the meat...
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Meat hunter first and rack hunter second! ;)
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stka,
Not me, I hate deer drives and wish they were outlawed.
I must say Deer Drives up here in the Adirondacks are a way of life for deer hunters,Thats how I started hunting and didn't know there was another way to hunt till I bought a BP gun and started hunting by myself on weekdays --just in my area there are over 20 deer camps that I know the hunter not to mention about that many who i don't know,in my incorperated Hunting camp alone we have 25 members ,some of these camps have anywheres from 8 to over 40 members up here,add up these people and you have alot of hunter that should have a say in Hunting.....
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based on their last posts.
realtreemans "i" count.....=19
upstatehunter's "i" count.......=7
just an observation. take from it what you will.
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"I" counted 7 in my last post RR..... ;D ;D ;D
Grew up the same way Joe....We belonged to a couple clubs, whose members ranged from the local guy looking for a place to hunt. To downstaters, or out of state hunters looking for the same. Large groups would get together and hunt a section of the property, doing drives.
My brother and myself kept the membership after the older generation had decided to quit. We figured out that surrounding the lease property was a lot of good prime state land. We scouted that and found where the deer those groups were pushing headed to hide. Set up "watches" as we called them then.(no stands were used back then) For a good number of years we took good bucks(my brother took some of the best of his career). But alas we weren't able to continue to afford it and raise a family and had to leave. From what I understand, they are mostly vacation camps for rich downstaters, or out of state people now. Not many hunters agree with the rules(separate from the state) that the land owners put into effect. No doe to be killed on Finch Pryun lands. Even though the state gives you the tags to do so. Why pay all that money for a lease when you have to go onto the state lands to use your license as you purchased it?
I agree, we all should have a say in what the state decides on for regulations. Either new ones imposed or old ones done away with/changed.
Your wrong about the pay for ECO's RTM, they are paid from the conservation fund which is collected from license sales among other sources including federal funding.
A quote from the DEC website " Why are the fees for hunting, fishing and trapping licenses being raised?
The license fees are being raised to generate more revenue for the Conservation Fund. For the past two years, there have been insufficient revenues generated from sporting license sales to cover the same level of fish and wildlife management and law enforcement that the Conservation Fund used to support."
Seems we all could learn more before we make statements or decisions pertaining to wildlife management, and myself is included in that.
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upstate my hunting club has been going round and round with the doe harvest issue. we pay dues for our lease and have lots of bordering state land. our bilaws state no doe harvest. last meeting i attended a member said people canoe across and take does legaly during muzzelloader and we pay dues and cannot take a doe. how does this make sense? we brought the law up for vote and reversed it to allow members to abide by nys law and take does during muzzleloader. first year a middle age member who rarley hunts shoots a small doe behind his camp. i went down and talked to tim and he was extremly happy with his deer. other members heard of the news and at the next meeting voted to return the bilaws to no doe harvest. i spoke up and said he shot and tagged a legal animal in accordance with dec law why change the law? makes no sense to me but the people have spoken.
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For the youth season, they can try whatever they want but I doubt a different season will make any difference. For antler restrictions there is an assumption that all hunters spend a long time in the woods every season and all want big racks. There has to be consideration for all those who buy the licenses. What about the person who only gets to hunt for a day or two every year, they could be ecstatic to get a buck of any size. How about my girlfriend who is just starting in her 30's, should I make her pass on anything? I shot my first in my 20's, it was a spike and was happy as I would have been with a big rack, because I was able to get it before my father left for KS on an antler hunt and had him there with me. There are more than enough people on private property practicing antler management, the state doesn't need to. If you don't like hunting public lands ( I don't), find private land to hunt. It's not easy to find new spots, but they are out there. I've got close to a dozen places I can hunt, not all are prime but some are. Look at my trail cam thread, I have soul permission on two neighboring properties. You have to do the work to get the right spot, it took me years and I'm still always looking/asking.
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I won't tell anyone they can't do deer drives, but I won't be in rifle range when they do. I find them inherently dangerous, because you are shooting at a running deer surrounded by hunters. I have done small pushes with a few guys I trust, but that is more still hunting your way towards sitters. I still prefer to stand hunt over any other method, you get to see a lot more wildlife that way.
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Primarily that is what most drives are today STKA. A still hunt by a few guys, to a another group on watch or stand. Those that do them regularly know where each other are, and where the shoot or no shoot zones are. Most so called accidents the last number of years are a couple guys doing small still hunt pushes to one another. Or a couple guys who take stands early and one gets down/up to go to their friends stand.(without agreement that was going to happen) Not that anything justifies the shooting. But your just as likely to be shot on private land by a poacher who has sneaked in to hunt that land you had permission to be on. Their level of apprehension is heightened already knowing they are where they aren't supposed to be. Again, nothing ever will justify or explain a hunter shooting another person.
But statistically deer drives have never been the most dangerous way to hunt. People tend to align themselves with others that are of the same skill or experience level as themselves. Makes for safer hunting and better hunting. Plus when you do bring the "new kid" in, they have many mentors not just one. Kind of like here, we have a group of people who have aligned together. We respect one another and defend one another. The hope I have is someday we all stand together like that to defend our privileges of enjoying the outdoors.
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Upstate,
I agree I dont know everything, (sorry ramrod for the "I"s ya know its hard not to when you are a self centered elitist) so you are saying that the saleries of the DEC are all taken out of the license fees of sportsmen, and Federal funding? Im not being sarcastic but where does that money (fed funding) get generated from? Kinda nice to know when we call the DEC next time that we are their bosses. But that does prove that the state is trying to generate money and that they need more license sales to do so.
As for the comment on being able to shoot and deer, any size, maybe then we should also allow for any turkey to be shot in spring. I (sorry again Ramrod) have called in a few non bearded gobblers and jakes not to mention hens. How about size limits on fish, why should we have to release fish that dont measure up to someones standards?
Ramrod 3 "I"s
1 "Im"
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I didn't start hunting until I was in college. When I was younger I considered it several diffenent times, had people that would help me along and all but still didn't do it. From personal experience - it is very difficult to start hunting if your immediate family members do not already. I would probably give up fishing completely if it meant i could hunt deer all year long. That is how much I now love hunting. It is especially difficult when your parents are protective/"scared" of guns. I didn't even know that I could have gotten a .22 for a little over $100 to start me out. And if I had proposed it to my parents when I was in my teens I am pretty sure I would have been in a heap of trouble.... So you guys who see a young person interested in starting out - help them out, it means a ton. Just take them out shooting squirles or something. If someone had done that for me then I bet I'd have found a route around the parents factor. Encouragement goes a long way. And if getting a young person out the first time you try doesn't work out, keep at it, it may only take that one time out there to create a lifelong hunter.
Something I think that could help a lot are 4-H style clubs. Funding is really limited and all but working with the things available and just getting kids together who are interested could move them along. It doesn't have to be lots of shooting. take them scouting, teaching the tactics that you would actually use in the situation. when it snows go and track a deer for a day, for miles and miles so that they learn something real and useful. If they are too young or just aren't shooting yet then invite them along for game recovery when you stick one, and the butchering and dragging out and all that. Creating the network of a club that is flexible could be a part of the solution. In some schools archery programs have been extreemely effective at bettering the students themselves because they are doing something real that gives them focus. Young people today are all screwed up, connecting them to something real can help them to grow into "good" adults.
The youth season sounds like a good idea. Let kids have an easier time getting the first one and as they age they can step up. Not sure on the timing but people will probably be angry whenever they put it. It will not kill bowhunting, if you work with the situation you will still get deer. For instance - Captain JJ bow hunts durring regular gun season and still kills deer. And the easiest time to kill a deer IMO is early bow, when it is warm, plenty of time to develope a pattern with little change in conditions to account for.
Antler restrictions and trophies - people need to decide for themselves what works for them and stop trying to impress their wants on others. As several have already stated, it is about the process of the whole hunt, not the big rack, for them (and me). I am far prouder of the small doe I stillhunted to within ten yards of in a tangled overgrown clearcut than the buck i shot out of a stand. Everyone is looking for something different out of hunting, I won't trample all over your happyness if you leave mine be also.
Hunting can actually be about the meat. It may not be perfectly cost effective when viewed in a direct economic sense but when you add in the enjoyment the hunting brings it seems the monitary cost is offset. I haven't boughten meat other than bacon in 2 years and I believe "vegitables are what food eats". Granted I am only feeding myself. And I take a lot of fish. But if you hunt a lot then you can currently kill a total of 7 or 9 deer if you travel some and transfer DMPs. Not counting early bow. No everyone cannot do that but some can. So figure you can eat about a deer and change every 2 months if you play your cards right and have some time to hunt.
If I am hunting with a friend or more then we do the stillhunt drives to each other. they can work extreemely well, be safe, and are nothing like the brush banging drives others are thinking of. It is a really fun way to hunt, the comrodery is great and certainly can take some skill and careful planing.
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Upstate,
I agree I dont know everything, (sorry ramrod for the "I"s ya know its hard not to when you are a self centered elitist) so you are saying that the saleries of the DEC are all taken out of the license fees of sportsmen, and Federal funding? Im not being sarcastic but where does that money (fed funding) get generated from? Kinda nice to know when we call the DEC next time that we are their bosses. But that does prove that the state is trying to generate money and that they need more license sales to do so.
As for the comment on being able to shoot and deer, any size, maybe then we should also allow for any turkey to be shot in spring. I (sorry again Ramrod) have called in a few non bearded gobblers and jakes not to mention hens. How about size limits on fish, why should we have to release fish that dont measure up to someones standards? Ramrod 3 "I"s
1 "Im"
population dynamics, maintain what we have. deer populations don't need us to just shoot big bucks to maintain a healthy population. fish are different than deer and some old school management tactics are made to fit fish that don't operate in the same manner as those the model was designed for.
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In all honesty I release big fish and shoot small bucks. I make an attempt at a decent buck each year but don't get them close.
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In some areas, your right about the turkey. Wouldn't hurt to take a few hens in the spring. But then no open season in the fall. They are still in a population growing phase in most of the state, and since biologically the hen can store sperm for a couple years to fertilize eggs then taking the tom isn't going to hurt all that much. Even help by reducing food competition between the poults and the toms.
We have a lot of size limits on fish because they don't mature at the same rate as a mammal. A deer is capable of reproducing in it's first year of life.(most within a year and a half) Not so with a fish. So the size limit allows those immature fish to at least reach sexual maturity.
Same as the funding that is generated for other programs the last bunch of years. They borrow against the federal reserve. ::) No one said it is perfect. And yes they(all law enforcement work for you) either to protect you and you family and possessions, or the wildlife and lands you like to recreate in/with...
Good points AB, by the sounds you have figured out where you fit in as a hunter. Coming from a family that doesn't hunt is very commendable that you kept an open mind to it, and give it a chance. We remain the best ever wildlife control system there ever was. Until someone invents a better one. What some seem to forget is through evolution we gave up the right to hunt. We now have the privilege to hunt. We don't depend on it to sustain our life. They depend on us to control wildlife to prevent disease and over population. I'm proud to be of help!!
Good way to be STKA. Take what the regulations allow, and enjoy the success. If the slammer come into that picture enjoy it.
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Brookie,
That is my favorite fish!
Part of this 5 yr plan is an antler restriction. No one is saying my personal idea of success (120” or better) has to be yours. Matter of fact it would please me to have everyone not interested in a trophy buck to be able to go out opening day and fill their tags. I do not agree with your early season assessment, the animals I am looking for do not like the warm weather and move very little during daylight when it is warm. First off most of my haters seem to be northern zone hunters where by mid Oct you are seeing colder weather and leaves are falling if not gone altogether. Come hunt the southern zone before you comment on deer movement and activity, in fact come hunt the state land and when you go days without even seeing a doe, tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. I am not talking about trophy deer Im saying anything. We don’t have miles to follow a deer track here, we go 2 miles and we run into private lands, so if you think you are going to go all Benoit in the southern zone you will be disappointed and by the way you pressure the deer and they go to the private lands. My point about the fish is that, maybe I consider a 16” laker a trophy or a good dinner, in most places he has to go back. Who is the state to tell me I cant eat that fish? Im sure there are larger fish out there that can take up the spawining slack. How many does did you see this spring that were not bred? I have seen smaller bucks ignore does during the rut, not all immature bucks get it when they are spikes and four points.
And because I know Ramrod is counting let me be the first to congratulate you on 25 “I’s”
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Does anyone know when they will make a decision on this BAD plan (IMO)???
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Brookie,
That is my favorite fish!
Part of this 5 yr plan is an antler restriction. No one is saying my personal idea of success (120” or better) has to be yours. Matter of fact it would please me to have everyone not interested in a trophy buck to be able to go out opening day and fill their tags. I do not agree with your early season assessment, the animals I am looking for do not like the warm weather and move very little during daylight when it is warm. First off most of my haters seem to be northern zone hunters where by mid Oct you are seeing colder weather and leaves are falling if not gone altogether. Come hunt the southern zone before you comment on deer movement and activity, in fact come hunt the state land and when you go days without even seeing a doe, tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. I am not talking about trophy deer Im saying anything. We don’t have miles to follow a deer track here, we go 2 miles and we run into private lands, so if you think you are going to go all Benoit in the southern zone you will be disappointed and by the way you pressure the deer and they go to the private lands. My point about the fish is that, maybe I consider a 16” laker a trophy or a good dinner, in most places he has to go back. Who is the state to tell me I cant eat that fish? Im sure there are larger fish out there that can take up the spawining slack. How many does did you see this spring that were not bred? I have seen smaller bucks ignore does during the rut, not all immature bucks get it when they are spikes and four points.
And because I know Ramrod is counting let me be the first to congratulate you on 25 “I’s”
well I am from the NZ but went to school in syracuse. I have hunted the southern zone, primarily state land, pretty extensively. Durring this past fall i hunted a minimum of 4 days a week, sometimes every day, for at least part of a day. I saw a deer every single time I hunted for a month and a half straight, i kept track, almost if not all in the SZ. So I would politely like to call BS. actually i really don't agree with anything you wrote. this may be because you are hunting diffenent state land in the SZ than me. I am not suggesting you follow every track you cut, if you know how to really track then you can tell if the deer is hours ahead of you or only 30 minutes or less. I was suggesting tracking primarily as a good way to get young people interested. But in fact my very favorite spot to track them is in the SZ, not the NZ. So I am actually quite happy with what I found in the SZ. You just need to figure out where to go. It is like fishing, 10% or less of the water holds 90% of the fish. Pressured deer go to "safe" places, some state land has those places. Lakers grow and mature slowly, give them time and they get big enough to actually contribute to reproduction. How sure are you that there are enough bigger lakers left to reproduce? Sounds like the white settlers out on the plans saying "Are you kidding!? There's no way we will ever run out of Buffalo!" to the Indians. You are trying to compare apples to oranges with fish and deer. I think the best thing for you to do is look up some literature, even wikipedia should do, about K and r selected species, population models (and the good and bad about them, maybe start w/ Lotka Voltara (sp)), maybe quality deer management and the bio/life cycle/history of deer, get some info about how these things actually work and then form an informed opinion.
Actually antler restrictions do make someone elses idea of success mine by force. i see the comparison you are making with fish but if you think of it more like we are stewards of the land, doing what is best for the ecosystem. I know antler restrictions do work to make bigger bucks in PA so it should work for the SZ of NY but NZ is a different animal. And you have to consider what the people want, meat in the freeze or antlers to stir the soup. A lot of really good bucks are comming out of the SZ even without antler restrictions.
And I have seen young of the year button bucks trying to bugger their sisters with mom trying to chase them away. Rut and estrous are not necessarily the same for each individual deer. How do you know the big bucks weren't ignoreing those does too?????
One thing i really don't like about the plan is dropping the either sex for bow and ml. especially for those of us who have lifetime licenses and already don't have to pay for doe tags. if they do get rid of the either sex i really hope at least those of us with lifetimes get those other 2 tag opportunities one way or another because in all honesty that is most of the reason i got the privledge, to get more tags plane and simple. It seems like I was buying into a plan that promised something but now the other side wants to back out....
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" One thing i really don't like about the plan is dropping the either sex for bow and ml. especially for those of us who have lifetime licenses and already don't have to pay for doe tags. if they do get rid of the either sex i really hope at least those of us with lifetimes get those other 2 tag opportunities one way or another because in all honesty that is most of the reason i got the privledge, to get more tags plane and simple. It seems like I was buying into a plan that promised something but now the other side wants to back out...."
EXCACTLY !!!!!
ADKBROOKIE hit the nail on the head!! Bait and switch?????
DG 8)
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I just read a good sample of the plan. I like it. Except for the implementation of more (any) antler restrictions, they're creeping closer to my WMU and actually bordering it. All the antlerless changes sound like a reasonable idea to try to adjust for high population areas. I'm not to happy about loosing my bonus buck tag, that was the closest thing to the earn a buck we had in NY.
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No one is going to like every aspect of a change, but I think they're trying to do the right thing with what data they have to work with.
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No one is going to like every aspect of a change, but I think they're trying to do the right thing with what data they have to work with.
What do you think the effect will be on the amount of hunters in the woods? What toll will it take on the HUNTERS FOR THE HUNGRY program, I bet the amount of donated venison will drop alot. Many of us use one or more of those tags that we lifetime license holders ALREADY BOUGHT AND PAID FOR, for donating to the less fortunate.
Antler restrictions + reduction in tags = Less deer taken.
Bad deal for sportsman. :(
DG
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They aren't going to stop either sex tags everywhere, just in lower density areas the way I read it. It also says that they want to switch from either sex tags to DMP's, so the gun hunters can shoot does too. I honestly didn't have time to read the whole thing, so I can't be 100% yet.
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RTM said "Come hunt the southern zone before you comment on deer movement and activity, in fact come hunt the state land and when you go days without even seeing a doe, tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. I am not talking about trophy deer Im saying anything."
I have gone seasons without seeing a deer here in the lovely forever wild lands of NYS. So that argument is lost on me. Your talking about the difference between the NZ and the SZ. Try walking 27,000 acres of state lands and not cut a track after a fresh snowfall. Only to drive home and see 10 deer on peoples back lawns. Just about will drive you crazy. A good number of the members here hunt state lands in the SZ and have good success. You might want to try changing the mind set you have. Try hunting deer, not a certain deer. It may lead to more sightings and with the rut, you never know when "that" deer may come by.
I'm in one of the zones that will probably have a reduction in tags for bow and ML. 5H has taken a hit the last few years through the winter, with the state cracking down on people feeding the deer in the winter. So worried about the chronic wasting disease, yet the deer still died. ::) But those deer in states that have feeders running year round still have a healthy deer population.
There probably won't be a program for those that bought a lifetime license. If they reduce the tags available, you get what they issue. You still aren't paying the license fees. Bought every year, you would have paid far more anyways so your still saving tons. Though I do understand your direction of thinking. But after the number of years it takes to break even with what you paid for the lifetime, your license is free.
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STKA i agree the aim is good and all with getting rid of the either sex tags. but the nice thing is i can hunt on it up here in 5h one day and the next head to somewhere like 3M (no i have never actually hunted it) and hunt on the same tag. you are not locked in and can stay mobile. doe tags lock you in.
upstate, in all likelyhood i will not be a nys resident much longer and that is part of the reason i got the lifetime. i figured out i would have to come back like 3 hunting and fishing seasons to pay for the lifetime if i change residency. at the very least i will not be hunting early ML and bow season here this comming season but it looks like i will be back mid nov. so in reality i will probably not get to fill all the tags but hey you never know, nice to have some left for the last bit of the season, love snow hunting. just kind of feel for the guys who will be here the whole time dealing with it.
new angle: if the deer are going to starve and die then why shouldn't they just leave the either sex so we get to take the ones that would starve anyways????? in that scenario either sex tags are doing more GOOD than harm. deer love early successional which as upstate stated is not how the adk state land is managed. so go find a few pieces that have been logged in the past few years and have at it.
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(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/nothingtodo18-1.gif)
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Not sure I subscribe to the kill'em all theory....LOL Though there are a lot of second home owners in this area who spent thousands on the lovey shrubs and plants,trees, and landscaping that would. Though they don't want you to shoot them and eat them, just make them go away..... ::)
The state has made the bed here with their forest practices. The deer and a lot of other wildlife has left those lands to go to private property that has been logged, or is maintained which creates food for them. The state forest lands are only going to be a viable home for them if there is a large wildfire, or catastrophic weather event that takes the large mature trees out and allows a new growth. Problem we locals are having now is the new owners of these properties(the original families sold out, either because they can't afford to live here or they just wanted to make money) don't want hunters there, or if they do allow it they lease to the highest bidder. Going to be the way it is sometime in the future unless the state gets their head out of the dark stinky place. Either buy lands to hunt on, and manage it for wildlife. Or lease. Hopefully, the state does something. All of the indicators point towards hunting as a former pastime in NY.
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There will always be hunting in NY, we just won't be able to afford it.
adkbrookie, Trust me I'm the trophy doe hunter, I don't want to change the tag system at all. Unfortunately it isn't right for every area. I also don't like hunting without a buck tag. It looks like I may have to if I only get one buck tag even though there are over a dozen bucks on the land I have sole permission on. I like the idea of one buck tag and earn the second by taking a doe or two from a dense population area.
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Brookie,
How do I know there are bigger lakers? Because I have caught and released many larger. In fact I find the larger ones to be not good eating. I used the Laker as an example, switch it to bass and the 12" limit, you gonna tell me I would make them go the way of the buffalo if I was to keep a few 11" ers?
Antlerless tags I'm with you and I am not saying you have to wait for a P&Y but come guys do you really need to tag a 1-1/2 or 2-1/2 yr old buck? its not about what each person considers a trophy its about strengthening the heard. If you do not think that letting smaller bucks grow will produce a better herd you are as someone labled me "self centered". It is no coincidence that the two top bucks all time from NY came from the same region in the same year right after there was no hunting years prior due to lack of animals. Yet today with food plots and mineral supplements they still cant seem to break the records. Why is it you can plant a crop with the sole intention of luring animals into shooting range, yet a woman near here was arrested for feeding the deer that came into her back yard? I know the CWD end of it but again come on really? Dont even get me going on why they sell baits for deer in NYS stores, they are illegal as for as I know statewide. Its all about the state raising money/taxes.
Also I have seen at times young bucks traveling with 2-3 does and they ignore the doe yet a larger buck comes in the picture and he dogs the does. Had it happen on 2 occasions last fall.
I hunt the Hi Tor & Stid Hill regions in NY (state land) and a few smaller state lands. Where do you go? I also hunt private lands but the majority is public.
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so your saying that passing on the buck that had no interest in the doe and shooting the bigger buck that was attempting to breed the doe, is the answer to a better/healthier herd? :o
4point, 8 point, makes no difference to me. i tie my tag to venison not my ego.
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I can only speak for myself, but yes I had to shoot a 1.5-2.5 year old buck (if I wanted one) last year. It was the only one I had in bow range all season, I shot it the last day of SZ archery. I'm not the best bow hunter, but I put a lot of time and effort into getting that big five point buck and wouldn't have been much prouder if it was the monster seven I was looking for all season. Yes, I shot a doe as well, the week before. After I got my "small" buck I continued to look for a bigger one and a good doe, but never got another opportunity. I did pass on four different button bucks (all legal) that a lot of doe hunters would have shot by mistake(legally). We can easily eat 2-3 deer a year, without counting jerky and sharing. I have every intention of doing the same thing again this year if I'm lucky enough. The truth is I probably would have passed on that buck the first few weeks of archery. It would have been just legal with ARs anyway, so they wouldn't have helped ;). That also happened to be the biggest of the four bucks I've got so far, although I've passed (and missed) bigger in the past.
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so your saying that passing on the buck that had no interest in the doe and shooting the bigger buck that was attempting to breed the doe, is the answer to a better/healthier herd? :o
4point, 8 point, makes no difference to me. i tie my tag to venison not my ego.
What are you reading? I never said either deer was within range for a shot, or for that matter I never said the older buck was a shooter by my standards. Ego? Check your own, all you talk about is tagging deer no matter what, just so you can boast about what a great hunter you are. As you dont measure success by antler inches, I dont measure it by number of kills. Also wanting to shoot only mature animals dosnt always mean antler inches, I have a 7pt that isnt even 100" that was 8 1/2 years old he was hunted for years by the locals, I chased him for 3 years and I got lucky, to me he is still my best ever. Oh by the way not to brag but to make my point, on public hunting grounds I have 1 B&C, 4 P&Y and 3 black bears one of which is in the book all archery kills. As I said the mature buck is my most memorable, not the one that tasted the best!
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You might want to do a little research as to the habits of the whitetail. Would have to question if those "book" deer were taken in NYS.
The small bucks were with the doe on the off chance she would stand for them. They had probably been trying for a while before you saw them, and she wouldn't. Not because they weren't interested... If she knows there is a bigger, more mature buck in the area nature tells her to wait for him to breed her for a better chance her fawn will be hearty and healthy.
And yes that last statement is bragging. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is in context.
You wrote about not seeing a lot of deer on your state lands. Yet then complain if a guy in the same boat shoots a younger deer when he sees it. Seems you have deep set ideas how you are right, and no one, even the state will convince you otherwise.
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Upstate,
As usual you are wrong again on many accounts. Again I do not care if a hunter wants to take a immature buck that is an individual choice. Youth hunters should be able to fill their tags with any deer, any season, as long as they follow the seasons bow, gun ect. What I cant stand is the whiners that think the state is going to take food out of their mouths by enforcing an antler restriction.
Three points on one side isn't going to eliminate a lot of bucks from the hit list, but it could/will help.We already have an antler restriction, they just want to change the minium.
Reasearch the habit of the whitetail? I know you will find fault with this, but I am heading to three different public hunting areas today to check about thirty trail cams, I volunteer my time and equipment and report the numbers of fawns, as well as buck and doe populations in the areas to to wildlife mngmt. What do you do? Oh yes tell everyone about how you rub elbows with politicians BS, who is the elitist here? I have spent over 100 days each year for the last three years in the off season working with wildlife mngmt. donating my time and equipment, at no cost to the state, what are you doing agian? Seems maybe my knowlege of the whitetail to some is a little better than yours.
Since you are so good at picking apart everything I say, note the comment "her fawn will be hearty and healthy." really ? Pick up a book learn about whitail habits, assuming the does I saw were mature which the were, most mature does have two fawns, 1 yr olds mostly have 1 fawn. I know its a technicality but from someone as knowledge and opinionated as you get it right.
I can look back to an earlier post where you said "Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point" that must have been braggin! The deer and bear I listed were all taken in NY on public hunting grounds.Although I didn't spell it out, lets see this is a forum under "NY State hunting" and I did say they were taken on public hunting grounds. Are you having trouble putting that together still? So what are you questioning?
You wrote about not seeing a lot of deer on your state lands. Yet then complain if a guy in the same boat shoots a younger deer when he sees it. Seems you have deep set ideas how you are right, and no one, even the state will convince you otherwiseWrong again first off its illegal to shoot from a boat in NY you should know that "Mr Hunter Education instructor" Second Im not complaining about the antler restrictions try to follow, Im for what the state is saying I also believe more does need to be harvested. Stop all the crying that "I had to pass on a 4 point today, how will I ever feed my family this year." You are big boys wait for a six point, dont be in such a hurry to get home for football.
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As I said the mature buck is my most memorable, not the one that tasted the best!
and this is the main difference between you and i. also i have never boasted about being a great hunter nor do kill numbers mean anything to me. i enjoy hunting for all that hunting offers, the experience w friends n family, personal enjoyment, and most importantly the fine eating it provides for my table
if you enjoy hunting for the chance at an encounter w a mature animal then thats great, i can appreciate that. my only problem is with your mind set is that your self imposed rules and limitations should be everyones and that anyone else that enjoys hunting for different reasons, or has different goals than yours is for some reason "stupid". which in my opinion defines you as an eletist.
how would you and your trophy hunting fraternity feel if ppl were trying to make it law that you had to shoot a small buck before you could shoot a big one? sound stupid?? yup.... but to us hunters that are happy with any buck thats what it feels like when ppl are trying to cram ridiculous restrictions down our throat meanwhile degrading us for having our own opinion.
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If you do so well on state land, how is the current system not working without increased antler restrictions? You will get them eventually, but then you'll have to accept more hunters in the woods longer chasing your bucks around.
One of my disagreements with antler restrictions is that if you want bigger better head gear (and that is the sole purpose IMO) consider this; There are two 2.5yr old bucks, one is a big fork and the other is a basket eight. You want the basket eight taken out? That fork has a lot less chance turning into a P&Y for you, but he'll be the one passing his genes on the next year. There will be plenty of antler restriction areas next year, you could consider looking for state land there to hunt.
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Each person has their own definition of "trophy" ........ and reasons why they hunt and no one has any right to question their motivation or actions as long as they are legal..... anyone who tries to over ride the law with their personal beliefs is the elitist.
To each their own ;)
I shot a beautiful 8 point with the rifle but was way more proud of my 4 point with the bow this past year ...... and after 15+ years of not hunting when my kids were little the buck i got last year after 20 dry years was definitely a trophy.
I don't have time but i have a picture of my freezer stuffed full of venison....... so between the meat and the time in the field these past couple of years have been a major success .... if i hadn't been able to fill the freezer i still enjoyed every minute in the field.
As far as the regs go .... the primary purpose should be management of the herd. There seems to be enough room that it would be possible to establish an area with antler restrictions if there is demand for it.
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Upstate,
first off its illegal to shoot from a boat in NY you should know that "Mr Hunter Education instructor"
:)
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rtm if u think antler restrictions wont affect most hunters u have no idea what the deer population looks like in northern ny many hunters wait all year just to see a buck no we are going to start counting points. not me i will shoot first and count later. lets see some pics of these monster bow kills ::)
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Upstate,
As usual you are wrong again on many accounts. Again I do not care if a hunter wants to take a immature buck that is an individual choice. Youth hunters should be able to fill their tags with any deer, any season, as long as they follow the seasons bow, gun ect. What I cant stand is the whiners that think the state is going to take food out of their mouths by enforcing an antler restriction.
Three points on one side isn't going to eliminate a lot of bucks from the hit list, but it could/will help.We already have an antler restriction, they just want to change the minium.
Reasearch the habit of the whitetail? I know you will find fault with this, but I am heading to three different public hunting areas today to check about thirty trail cams, I volunteer my time and equipment and report the numbers of fawns, as well as buck and doe populations in the areas to to wildlife mngmt. What do you do? Oh yes tell everyone about how you rub elbows with politicians BS, who is the elitist here? I have spent over 100 days each year for the last three years in the off season working with wildlife mngmt. donating my time and equipment, at no cost to the state, what are you doing agian? Seems maybe my knowlege of the whitetail to some is a little better than yours.
Since you are so good at picking apart everything I say, note the comment "her fawn will be hearty and healthy." really ? Pick up a book learn about whitail habits, assuming the does I saw were mature which the were, most mature does have two fawns, 1 yr olds mostly have 1 fawn. I know its a technicality but from someone as knowledge and opinionated as you get it right.
I can look back to an earlier post where you said "Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point" that must have been braggin! The deer and bear I listed were all taken in NY on public hunting grounds.Although I didn't spell it out, lets see this is a forum under "NY State hunting" and I did say they were taken on public hunting grounds. Are you having trouble putting that together still? So what are you questioning?
You wrote about not seeing a lot of deer on your state lands. Yet then complain if a guy in the same boat shoots a younger deer when he sees it. Seems you have deep set ideas how you are right, and no one, even the state will convince you otherwiseWrong again first off its illegal to shoot from a boat in NY you should know that "Mr Hunter Education instructor" Second Im not complaining about the antler restrictions try to follow, Im for what the state is saying I also believe more does need to be harvested. Stop all the crying that "I had to pass on a 4 point today, how will I ever feed my family this year." You are big boys wait for a six point, dont be in such a hurry to get home for football.
I believe Upstate was using the old adage " In the same boat" to refer to someone in the same situation. I'm pretty sure he doesn't hunt from a boat. You have your opinions and other people have theirs. Agree to disagree and move on. Although I love a good argument I think this has gotten out of hand. Kinda makes me wonder why you would join this site and immediately start to argue with everyone?!? CP is that you? ;D Cheeks out!!! 8)
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:)
+1 ;D
this is turning into a polarizing bunch of bs, like cheeks said. done after this.
rtm, stick to your places, i worked hard and found mine myself, you can hunt there too if you find them. also, it sounds like i hunt in a different manner than you and just because i am seeing deer doesn't mean i am shooting them. i am surprised you don't have a better idea about deer herds with this vol. work you are talking about. good hunting to you.
older does tend to have 2 fawns if there is enough food. when there isn't enough they reabsorb one of the 2.
food balls for deer are a point source food. you concentrate the deer a lot more than a food plot so things like CWD do tend to transfer a lot easier. "the solution to polution is dilution", think of pathogens as polution.
something to think on: deer can do a ton of damage to forest ecosystems. it is generally easier to build the deer pop back up than regenerate healthy forest in places like the sz.
i am plenty happy to shoot a 2.5 yr old buck, and then keep on hunting not watching football.
stka, i got what you were saying, just trying to add something constructive. love the big old wiley does. earn a second buck is a great idea imo, from a management standpoint.
upstate, i have seen what you are talking about with the land buy ups first hand and it is too bad.... what you said is spot on imo
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Oh boy this thread is hot. ;D ;D Hey realtreeman, I am still waiting to see your 100+ inchers. ;)
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Inch by inch..........death by a thousand cuts...... I remember when friends of mine who were smokers, NEVER EVER thought the day would come when they couldn't walk into their favorite watering hole and light up. They used to tell me,"that will NEVER happen"............inch by inch........ Just sayin 8)
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Yeah, you got me. Don't do a thing to help NYS hunting or fishing. Just sit here on the puter waiting to pick apart someones post.
Kind of thing us woodchucks do to self centered , egotistical elitists.... ;)
The buck I spoke of is the only buck that was tagged by myself in the last 5 years. Because the coyotes ate the other three I had shot with my bow. Yet still filled out those tags and called them in as a killed deer. Self imposed yes, but the way I felt it should be done. Was my fault for leaving the deer overnight. And that didn't warrant an excuse to go shoot another. Guess the state sure knows how to manage the coyote herd though HUH?
Um yeah, same boat, same situation....guess that was another woodchuck term as well...Sorry will refrain from those in the future.
But haven't seen where you couldn't float a river or creek with a non-motorized boat to hunt deer, as long as they aren't in the water.
Will have to do more checking on that....Ahhh nah just woodchuck it, and do it. They ain't got enough game wardens to catch ya any ways...
So just so I don't get something else wrong....You spent all these hours helping the state with deer management, over 100. Yet "they" don't know how to manage deer in your opinion?
And I quote; "Im 51 and I am willing to stop buying NYS licenses and go hunt other states if this new youth and muzzleloader season go through. Reasons, I can afford to do so and I want to shoot trophy bucks. The earlier start is usless because the temps. are too warm and the foliage is too thick. (even at the Oct 15 th start times) I can go on all day about how stupid this youth hunt is from a standpoint of ruining the archery season, not to mention the danger of not being able to see whats behing your target (dense foilage) and the possibilities that Jr shoots dad or grandpa while they are driving deer to the kids. The NYSDEC is showing that they have no clue on how to manage the heard or how to attract new hunters.
The guys I know that have stopped hunting in NY have done so mostly because they cannot afford to drive a hundred miles each way just to find public hunting grounds. Most landowners allow only family or friends to hunt their lands or they want a few thousand to lease a few hundred acres a year, so dont even suggest knocking on doors. Been there done it!
We need to get vocal on this subject and let the state know that the few license sales they gain will be offset by disgruntled archers that will go out of state, or just give it up altogether, due to the lack of deer we will see after the woods are thrashed with gun hunters." End quote
So why do you spend all this time to help them? Why not go to another state and help them? They have it all together and are doing it right. After all you can afford to and they gots better deers....
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Boy, this is getting good. I have alot to say but, I think the walleyes are going to hit early today....so, see you later....Upstate, stay cool....lol....I'm biting my tongue on this topic....hunts2long
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Hope they are biting H2L!! A few fillets on the grill sounds great!
Don't bite your tongue to hard, makes them hard to eat and taste like blood... ;)
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HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I leave for the wood's for a couple of week's and look what I'm missing. Upstate's got a new handle, ramrod's counting, the new guy is managing NY to be like Kansas, I think CP's hding in there some where. Still waiting for the c-mere deer refrence. ;D ;D Then we will know for sure.
Face it, Bit@#in here isn't really helping do anything about the management of your dee herd. I do know this, There were very few deer where I live in the 80's and 90's. Many years of limited antlerless deer tags fixed that. Now we can buy them over the counter as supplies last. I hunt for the whole experience and for meat. If I have a buck tag left 3" antlers is all it will take.
You do what you want I'll do it my way as long as it's legal who care's.............
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I dint know where you get the idea I do not see deer, and that the state does a poor job on management. I said early season we see very little due to the warmer temps, and dense foliage. By opening earlier on Oct 1st (which wont effect you) the state and NYSBHA think they are doing us a favor, so we should be willing to accept a week of gun (youth & ML) and not be concerned.
I said the state was stupid, I did not call anyone here stupid, the name calling started when I was dubbed an elitist and the number of "I"s used in a post had some sort of significance.
I'm speaking from a SZ archers point of view, very few of you hunt public lands in SZ, even the one that claims he does but cant say where, so really you are not qualified to comment on the conditions, just as I have not hunted the NZ in years and I will not comment as if I was an expert as most of you claim to be in the SZ.
Why would the state ever ask hunters to shoot a smaller buck first then persue a mature animal? Makes zero sense. I can see the harvest a doe before getting a buck tag. Do you know anything about buck to doe ratios? There was a time in the recent past where SZ antlerless tags were not valid through most of the early bow season, a lot of us archers voiced our opinions about passing on does early when we saw quite a few. In part because of that they changed it to validate antlerless tags in early season. So many times I do take a doe early.
Nowhere did I say "every" mature doe has two fawns, or every one year old has only one fawn. As with the "in the same boat" comment I was doing as you all seem to do, picking apart someones thoughts because I want to show superiority, kinda rude isn't it?
Heavy racked 4 pt and basket 8 both 2.5 years old? You cannot determine which one has better genetics based on that. That opens up another (I'm sure) argument about taking deer based on age and antler size. I dont suggest it, but on hunts I have taken in other states the outfitters have restrictions min 140" or 4.5 yrs. Shoot below min. and there is about 1k fine. If the law is 3pts on one side min. then take the 8 you are going to anyway. From what I have seen the "you cant eat the antlers" crowd will shoot the horns every time even if they have a pockfull of antlerless tags. Lets be honest the doe is better eating I have had an 8.5 yr old buck and it wasnt real tender. Its good for sausage.
I am not at home this weekend but to the doubters I will send along a picture when I get back. I would have posted last week but I didnt want to be accused of "braggin" in fact I do find it funny that some of you call me out for what I have done and you feel it necessary to show off your bucks and in one case your shooting form. On another thread one of you talks of entering birds in a turkey contest, and one ridiculas thread you actually cout the # of posts and at least one of you is involved in that. I dont care in fact you should be proud of your trophys, but to throw stones and make challanges unless you are willing to eat crow, or maybe we could put a wager on it! Any takers? Im sure once I post a pic or two you are going to question what state it was taken, blah,blah,blah.
I do have the tags all from NY, they were taken fair chase, and although I cannot prove the exact location like I am sure some of you will want they are all public land deer. I also have the score sheets B&C P&Y offical.
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[You do what you want I'll do it my way as long as it's legal who care's.............
[/quote]
Thats just it do it your way I'll do it mine. Id just like to ba able to do it my way without the state screwing up the bow season by putting a week long gun season in the middle, then tell me "but we are giving you two extra weeks at the begining. Give the warm buggy 2 weeks to the kids and smokepolers but leave our bow season alone.
The plan we are discussing here is not just the antler restrictions. The way NY works its all or nothing in the plan and once addopted it will never go back even if it proves usless, 5yrs=forever.
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And once again, more discussion would be warranted with the state on the 5 year plan.
Though "I" would love to pick this last post apart, really no reason to. You hunt the way you see fit, you believe the state should do what you believe. Bottom line is they will(and do) make regulations they believe are necessary. We all just have to live with it, or hunt elsewhere....
I'm thinking Md. would be a good start.... ;)
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Upsate,
Yes you did get it wrong since we are splitting hairs. I said over 100 days not hours. Big difference, not that you do either.
The buck I spoke of is the only buck that was tagged by myself in the last 5 years. Because the coyotes ate the other three I had shot with my bow. Yet still filled out those tags and called them in as a killed deer. Self imposed yes, but the way I felt it should be done. Was my fault for leaving the deer overnight. And that didn't warrant an excuse to go shoot another. Guess the state sure knows how to manage the coyote herd though HUH?
Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point.(not that I haven't tried to shoot smaller) Had coyotes get the last two bucks I shot with my bow. Called the tag in as a kill.
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Upstate:
Sorry I keep losing my conection and it sends when it shuts down
Started to say, which story is true, was it 3 coyote loses or 2?
Ive always notcied that the story seems to change at time when guys lie/brag. When you actually live the story it usually dosnt change, at least not till old age and you are not old.
I did say the NYDEC does not know how to manage the heard, based on the new proposal I was speaking of. Ya know letting gun hunters come in for a week in the middle of bow season, kick the crap outta the woods, spook the deer nocturnal. If you as a bow hunter do not see that as being a horrible idea, for what ever reason, then I can see why you only recover 25% or 33% (depending on which story is good for the day) of what you shoot. Wonder how may you hit and not even the coyotes can stop so you can recover the rack. Sounds to me like you are more of a antler hunter than I am.
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So what was your point? Yeah the bucks the coyotes got to before me were smaller, and yeah I counted them as kills. Yeah the only one that came into my hands to process and eat was the 8. Oh and when the head was done at the taxidermists, I lost my job and didn't have the funds to finish paying for it. A group of guys from this site thought it would be nice to help me out. That they did. They showed me that through their selflessness, that we are a large family. So no matter what, I may not agree with your ideas or way of doing so. But will defend your privilege to do so until the end.
Yeah 100 days instead of hours makes my point look so wrong..... ::)
So lets split some hairs, Yes I mistyped. Both should have said three. Sorry, once again the woodchuck coming out in me. Not the liar.
Never had a problem with recovering deer until the last few years. The dogs here have gotten to a point that if you don't see it go down, you have a hard time getting to it before they do. Helped a young man find his 8 point he shot the first day of archery a few years ago. The deer ran right under my stand. We were only 30 minutes or less behind tat deer, and the coyotes had the whole hind quarters gone when we chased the off it. Why I have been trying to get them to leave the coyote season open through Turkey season. So I guess you need to hunt the northern zone a little before commenting.
I got the idea you don't see deer by your post.... ::) "Come hunt the southern zone before you comment on deer movement and activity, in fact come hunt the state land and when you go days without even seeing a doe, tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. I am not talking about trophy deer Im saying anything."
I have hunted the southern zone, a lot. Had permission to hunt one of the largest tracks of farm lands in a SZ area. Did very well there.
Hunted state land for a number of years with a good group of guys from an archery club in Scotia. Did well there too.
Will still be willing to bet, you could come up here and be let loose on the Siamese wilderness area of 24000 acres and you would be hard pressed to see a deer let alone shoot one.
So in closing, we could continue to debate this for days. Wouldn't change a dang thing. So you do yours, I'll do mine. :-X
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Has anyone on this site did any research on the person who is in charge of the DEC? Try googling him and check his background and history. It may or may not affect your veiw of whats going on in NY, but its always good to know who your dealing with, and the agenda they might have.
I love the whole exp. of hunting, and I'm very protective of my rights. I want to be able to spend as much time enjoying our heritage as poss. Blind faith in the powers that be, can get you burned. I hope they are truly looking out for our best interests.
DG 8)
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I think crossbows are being intoduced to New York this coming season.(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/a16-5.gif)
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I think crossbows are being intoduced to New York this coming season.(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/a16-5.gif)
For archery season................. :'( :'( :'( :-*
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My mistake Upstate I didn't mean I do not see deer all season, but there are a a lot of times early that I see little or nothing and other guys report the same. If you will look back I started out by making an argument for not allowing the youth and ML season during bow. The NYSDEC seems to think that will sell many more licenses, you yourself stated you have seen adults brag about cheating on the youth turkey season, and to me this is another chance for low life's to do the same, not to mention screw up the woods for archers. Adding two more weeks to bow in the SZ, earlier than the approx. 10/15 start is not going to sweeten the deal. Again it is too warm/hot and deer do not move, so giving us two more almost useless weeks where we can go sit in the woods and swat flies is total BS. You all jumped on me like I was coming after the youth. I suggested giving them the 2 weeks but no one has a comment on that, why because everyone knows it will not be productive and the very youth we are trying to interest in hunting will lose interest. Then guys chime in about how the weather makes no difference. Again BS, it could very well be the #1 determining factor in seeing deer. Then mention I enjoy trophy huntin and all those that dint care to look for mature bucks get their hackles up and start going to the name calling, I dint shoot little bucks, all the more for you, you dint hunt for big bucks all the more for me.
We have a huge coyote problem here also, that's why I trap and hunt them. I'm not criticizing but if it were me and the yotes were beating me to three out of four deer Id be on that trail an hour after I hit him. I have never seen a deer unless poorly hit live much more than 10 minutes, and yes I have had a few bad hits.
All I was trying to say here was this plan to interrupt the SZ bow season with a week of gun is crap, if you all think I am out to spoil your kids fun or to the parents that think this will be another good way to cheat the system (I have heard them brag too) and Im ruining your fun, you really are self centered. Learn to hunt the way we all did Ive hunted with the old boys and I do OK.
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I'm more confused than a dairy cow on astro turf right now after reading this thread...I'm not even sure what everone is arguing about...one thing I do know is I have some more trail cam pictures from the Northerntier...I'm moving my camera to my spot in the Southerntier soon...Early Bow starts September 27th and next year at this time I will be in the Persian Gulf...Thanks for all the reading though, it is way too hot outside right now anyway... 8)
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Not sure where the stone throwin started hunt but my laptop died about 4 pages back and I'm not runnin the generator to charge it. ;) Found MOM's while she's nappin so I hacked in here. ::) I can't hunt in NY since the witness protection incident so I'm not sayin any more on this topic..................... ;D ;D ;D
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For archery season................. :'( :'( :'( :-*
On the subject of Crossbows:
They can ONLY be used in the regular big game gun season and late muzzle loader season. You also have to go on the DEC website and print a "Crossbow Cert. of Qualification" This must be read and signed and carried with you if you choose to use a crossbow.
DG 8)
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Hey Realtreeman, I still want to see the big bucks you have taken over the years. You call BS on a lot of stuff and now I am calling you out. You have ignored me two times on that so let's have a looksee. ;)
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we've already seen all the photos CP has DRob. ;)
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Hey Realtreeman, I still want to see the big bucks you have taken over the years. You call BS on a lot of stuff and now I am calling you out. You have ignored me two times on that so let's have a looksee. ;)
Droberts,
I know reading isnt your strong point but I said as soon as I get back home I'll post some. Right now I am on vacation 120 miles from home and I dont have them with me this isnt my computer Im using.
Would you also care to put some money behind your call of BS? I didnt see you speak up when I offered a wager before. What do you say?
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Droberts,
I know reading isnt your strong point but I said as soon as I get back home I'll post some. Right now I am on vacation 120 miles from home and I dont have them with me this isnt my computer Im using.
Would you also care to put some money behind your call of BS? I didnt see you speak up when I offered a wager before. What do you say?
I see spelling isn't your strong point. ;)
I guess that will buy you some more time to go take pics of someones bucks. ;D Sure we can put a wager on it. When you come down to collect, I will kick you in the doodads and send you back to New York. ;)
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This thread is officially out-o-control... :o
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I see spelling isn't your strong point. ;)
I guess that will buy you some more time to go take pics of someones bucks. ;D Sure we can put a wager on it. When you come down to collect, I will kick you in the doodads and send you back to New York. ;)
Oh my did I spell something wrong? First off loser if you want to make physical threats you do not belong here, and I strongly suggest that others ignore you for making them. Second I didnt see any spelling errors, not that I should have to run spell check, since when does anyone here care about that? As you claim you called me out twice and I stated I would send them when I get home that was the "cat read" comment I already responded, so either you missed it or you cant read. Since you have no life other than posing in front of a head in a taxidermists shop and asking others how your shooting form looks, you should at least be able to read through the post and see that I responded. Your first request I belive asked about 100'ers didnt think that was aimed at me, I dont shoot 100"ers.
All in all I will take it that you really do believe me because you are willing to kick me when I come to collect. You couldnt put up enough money. Im sorry you had to sink to physical threats, but thats usually what a loser will do.
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Oh my did I spell something wrong? First off loser if you want to make physical threats you do not belong here, and I strongly suggest that others ignore you for making them. Second I didnt see any spelling errors, not that I should have to run spell check, since when does anyone here care about that? As you claim you called me out twice and I stated I would send them when I get home that was the "cat read" comment I already responded, so either you missed it or you cant read. Since you have no life other than posing in front of a head in a taxidermists shop and asking others how your shooting form looks, you should at least be able to read through the post and see that I responded. Your first request I belive asked about 100'ers didnt think that was aimed at me, I dont shoot 100"ers.
All in all I will take it that you really do believe me because you are willing to kick me when I come to collect. You couldnt put up enough money. Im sorry you had to sink to physical threats, but thats usually what a loser will do.
Ya know what,, I welcomed you to the site and got no replys,........ Thanks buddy........................
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Dom have you been drinking? :D ;D 8)
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On the subject of Crossbows:
They can ONLY be used in the regular big game gun season and late muzzle loader season. You also have to go on the DEC website and print a "Crossbow Cert. of Qualification" This must be read and signed and carried with you if you choose to use a crossbow.
DG 8)
That was a poor attempt at humor, We had a thread go very similar to this on crossbow use.............It was ugly, much as this has turned. Sorry for the confusion. :-[
Dom have you been drinking? :D ;D 8)
What! no resplyes raquette? ;D ;D
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I will not shoot anything less than 120". Not to say I wont but I pass on a few bucks that others would gladly take.
So what do you shoot when its under 120"? ;D 110's?
Oh my did I spell something wrong? First off loser if you want to make physical threats you do not belong here, and I strongly suggest that others ignore you for making them. Second I didnt see any spelling errors, not that I should have to run spell check, since when does anyone here care about that? As you claim you called me out twice and I stated I would send them when I get home that was the "cat read" comment I already responded, so either you missed it or you cant read. Since you have no life other than posing in front of a head in a taxidermists shop and asking others how your shooting form looks, you should at least be able to read through the post and see that I responded. Your first request I belive asked about 100'ers didnt think that was aimed at me, I dont shoot 100"ers.
All in all I will take it that you really do believe me because you are willing to kick me when I come to collect. You couldnt put up enough money. Im sorry you had to sink to physical threats, but thats usually what a loser will do.
Unlike you I wont resort to name calling. ;) If you want to come down and collect on your winnings, I will gladly give it to you. These certificates explain the buck I am posing with in my signature line. Do you think there is any correlation between David Roberts and drobertsinmaryland? Then I somehow climbed my way into Longhunter Record Books. ;)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/DSC01785.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/DSC01784.jpg)
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Dom have you been drinking? :D ;D 8)
What ya talking about Wilis?????????????????????? ;D ;D ;D
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I wus jist checkinin ta see if youveve had a few cold wons taday... ;D...it is very dangerous to type and drink... ;D...this thread has been my entertainment this weekend though while I have been dodging 90+ degree weather...
I can say on an honest note that big bucks can be killed consistantly on state land here in NY, I am not seeing where all these arguments are going though pretty much at this point its about whose Zuchini is bigger...both 140" bucks that were taken from our group last year...
Uncle Dougs 143" on State Land
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss324/huntny30/Picture021-3-1.jpg)
Tom K's 146" on State Land
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss324/huntny30/Tom.jpg)
As well as this one taken about 10 miles away on state land...160+"
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss324/huntny30/IMG.jpg)
Dad's 2003...132" bordering State Land
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss324/huntny30/scan0011.jpg)
Archerpat last year bordering state land...the one I lost with my bow...
(http://i588.photobucket.com/albums/ss324/huntny30/PatH6pt-2.jpg)
I don't doubt that RTM will post some awesome bucks but the intention of this site is to share stories, ideas, agree to disagree and allow sportsmen and women to extend our hunting camps with fellow sportsmen...I hope this whizzing contest slows down and we can get on with some good stories...good trail cam pics and lead into another successful season for all...State Land in NY Southerntier is under utilized for the most part...not like 15 years ago...that is why we leave our property to settle and we spread out on the state lands...also I wanted to re-post some pictures just to get the blood flowing again...we are not trophy hunters at our camps either, but we choose to be selective at times...we have definitely shot our share of 10" to 40" bucks...last year I only shot 0" deer...I'm going swimming! Hunt out! ;D
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Dom have you been drinking? :D ;D 8)
As a matter of fact, I did have a couple of cold ones today :)
A little confused why you asked. Was my info wrong? I got it from the DEC website...
And thanks to those to have welcomed me to this site!!!
DG 8)
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I missed the part that you said hi, so welcome to the site. This the best group of guys I've seen on any forum. Sometimes we can get off on the wrong foot and end up arguing virtually the same poit. I'm done on this thread.
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As a matter of fact, I did have a couple of cold ones today :)
A little confused why you asked. Was my info wrong? I got it from the DEC website...
And thanks to those to have welcomed me to this site!!!
DG 8)
Dom is Raquettedacker I was refering to his spelling on the post right above mine...I don'teven know what info you are talking about...but anyway...welcome to the site... ;D
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Hey Hunt, I don't think anyone will kill bucks like that if the state opens a youth gun hunt during bow season. ::) What are we gonna do???? :o ::) :'( ;D Cheeks out!!!! 8)
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nice bucks hunt totally agree with tour perspective about the site
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Hey Hunt, I don't think anyone will kill bucks like that if the state opens a youth gun hunt during bow season. ::) What are we gonna do???? :o ::) :'( ;D Cheeks out!!!! 8)
You'll be ok, just stay off that state lands where all the fathers will be driving to all the kids..... ;) 8)
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Huntny, nice to see those pictures again. Also, thanks for leading most of us with the Peace Making....both on here and for what you do at work....GO NAVY.....hunts2long
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So what do you shoot when its under 120"? ;D 110's?
Unlike you I wont resort to name calling. ;) If you want to come down and collect on your winnings, I will gladly give it to you. These certificates explain the buck I am posing with in my signature line. Do you think there is any correlation between David Roberts and drobertsinmaryland? Then I somehow climbed my way into Longhunter Record Books. ;)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/DSC01785.jpg)
(http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/gg137/drobertsinMaryland/DSC01784.jpg)
Hey I called you a loser because you are, you clearly acknowledged that you will pay up when I come to Maryland to collect and then you will physically assult me. So you know Im telling the truth and you will lose the wager and like a sore loser you will attack me. I didnt question anything about your buck untill you called BS on mine. I didnt come to this fourm to beat my chest, but every post I make progresses further into the "you dont know what you are talkin about" direction. I came to this fourm to discuss the "NYS five year deer plan" my Ideas on how I think it will affect myself and other archers, has been questioned as if I have no experience. When I mention the deer and bear I have taken I get called out as a BSer, accused of being someone named CP, questioned on the state in which I took them. (yours isnt from NY so it dosnt count according to others). And because I dont carry a flash drive with my pics 24-7 again I am questioned go back and check the post where I said I was heading out to check trail cams late last week I am also on vacation, is that alright or should I check with you next time? It dosnt matter if I show you the heads, the tags, and the score sheets you will call BS and say those arent yours (because Id have to block my name, ya know the assult thing that someone here has sunk to), those look like Kansas deer, maybe they were road kills I picked up.
This is a NYS five year deer plan, maybe you should stick to commenting on Maryland hunting instead of just coming here and commenting. As for showing off my heads, it looks like I will be displaying at a booth in Sept. at the Region 8 DEC Hunting and Fishing Days, I'll have 4-5 deer mounts and a bear or two. (and documentation for the non believers that pretty much seem to hang out here) And maybe crow for a few of you.
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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?
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People, I just want to say, you know, can we all get along?
I know You and I can........ ;)
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Doubtful Chucker. ::)
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Realtreeman...I don't think anyone is really questioning the fact that you have taken some nice deer, anyone who knows NY State knows that region 8 and several other areas of the State produce nice deer, Drobs has been on this site for a long time as well as many others, some of us have even gotten together on a few occasions...your DEC 5 year plan is a valid discussion point however it isn't really being discussed, I personally would like to see your pictures because I am a big fan of deer hunting and I like to see successful stories close to home...Drobs is a good guy and this is the first time I have seen him upset at anything on here...hopefully you guys can drop this out of control feud and move on to the upcoming season...discussing the topics...people are going to defend people they know as would your people...for the most part everyone on this site enjoys hunting as much as you that is why we are here...so I personally would like to see your bucks hear your stories and hopefully get past the out of controlness...everyone on here grew up hunting differently and we all had different teachers, different family traditions and different goals as far as hunting goes...many including myself on here will call BS when warranted and we will also give each other a hard time just for fun but most come on here for (like I said before) an extended hunting camp...when you fight a political issue to the death, no two people are going to agree...and it almost always gets heated...this isn't the first thread that has gone bad...and it won't be the last...it would be great if you took the time to talk to folks on here as well as listen...If you look at another post that was recently started it deals with this issue as well, input from hunters is what ultimately drives as much stupidity out of our State Officials decisions as possible but just like every other topic in todays world with every opinion there is someone else that thinks the complete opposite...So drop your battle with Drobs and post your pics as well as trailcam pics and add to the greatness of this site...I think you will find a new respect for this site as well as the people who are on it...hunters of all point of views need to stick together...thats my speech for the day...I hope you enjoyed your vacation, I sure need one and hopefully once you share your pics, stories and we like trail cam pics...you will see the true spirit of the folks on here...HUNTNY
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Well said Hunt. Shouldn't you be at work like me? Cheeks out!!! 8)
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I took a five minute break... 8)
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So, goes the reason we lose many privileges across the board. We can't ever agree on anything, or meet at a common ground.
There are a lot of us that feel an entitlement when it comes to hunting. If we are given more tags, then they decide to reduce them everyone flips out. Rules change, at least they aren't trying to ban hunting. They are working to try to increase our numbers, both hunter and game. But our discord with each other often makes it easy for antis to step in and control things that get done or not done.....
Very sad sometimes. But as with a lot of things these days, the information highway has two cutting edges. It gets people who never would have discussed anything together, but also brings those that will disagree no mater what together as well. Plus allows those that would try to stop us all together to document our dysfunction.
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I second cheeks motion...........Well stated and vacation from what? your partying with a band all the time from what I'v seen. ;D
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It's hard work Boggy to find Navy SEALs... :o
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They do blend in well don't they. ;D Cheeks out!!! 8)
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Not in their Woolies!!! ;)
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Bogman: Vacation from my job, despite not being able to read or write I managed to get a masters and ended up starting my own company that employes about 150, I do OK for a guy that is full of it! (and I am sure there are some haters thatwill call BS again)
HuntNY: I wish I could post one right now so I (me and the band)could accept the apologies of those that called the BS. E-mailed a friend to see if he still has any (of mine, not his) he can fire over to me still waiting for his response. Cam pics last week didnt show much, I do have a hand held pic I snapped of a decent one.
No BS I am not able to insert the pic Ive been trying for a while and wont go! Try later
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Realtreeman, Bog was talking about me taking vacation, I recently posted pics with the Navy Rock band that I had in Utica to perform after the boilermaker race...none of those comments were directed at you...you are taking this way to personal, it is not an attack on you for any of this, a few of you got fired up and I'm pretty sure most are over it...you don't have to post your pics right this second, just whenever you get back from vacation...or ever, I think you posted a ways back that you were 51, I'm sure you don't have anything to prove to us...I think most of us would like to see your pics...get past this and be able to share this upcoming season without the drama...trust me when September rolls around this site is booming with lots and lots of people...I am sure you are a successful guy and a successful hunter...those only came into question when the feud was heated...why would you come on a site and lie about who you are and what you do, I don't think anyone would...most of us on here have disagreed at one point and so far nobody has held any grudges...that is life...trust me if you post more thoughts, pics or anything else you want to talk about and most on here will congratulate you and join in...if you just want to continue the feud then I'm pretty sure that would be a huge waste of time for you, me and everyone else, I'm just trying to get this on track hopefully have another person on here that we can discuss and share our passion of hunting with...if you are too far disgruntled that is too bad because this is a great site with great people...hopefully you can get past it and join in with the coversations of the day...your call I'm just trying to welcome you to the site...
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Bogman: Vacation from my job, despite not being able to read or write I managed to get a masters and ended up starting my own company that employes about 150, I do OK for a guy that is full of it! (and I am sure there are some haters thatwill call BS again)
HuntNY: I wish I could post one right now so I (me and the band)could accept the apologies of those that called the BS. E-mailed a friend to see if he still has any (of mine, not his) he can fire over to me still waiting for his response. Cam pics last week didnt show much, I do have a hand held pic I snapped of a decent one.
No BS I am not able to insert the pic Ive been trying for a while and wont go! Try later
The best way to display pics is to create a Photobucket acount and then download your pics to it...you have to post the bottom code/link from photbucket to this site and it will display...I cannot do it from work but I'm sure someone on here will take your pic and display it if you would like until you can access photobucket, they will just have to PM you their e-mail address so you can send it...if you have more questions let me know...
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Huntny:
Thanks I'll see what I can do, Im using a borrowed laptop and Im having trouble keeping connection out here in the woods, their wifi is about like dial up.
By the way nice pics, what part of the state? Most of mine are from Onatrio, and Yates, got 1 in bow only zone in Monroe.
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Yep-huntny is correct. I'm not here to argue............All done on this one.
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Sorry Im getting a bit gun shy thought the band ref was a “band wagon” shot. Maybe I should just go away for a while and chime in later. Seems Im alone in my ideas on the 5 yr plan, and that’s kinda what I was looking for, other hunter’s opinions. Maybe I’ll see some of you at the outdoor show Region 8 in Avon in Sept. as it stands now I will be there with some mounts, say hello and tell me I was a complete ass on the fourm, and I’ll get you a free gift. Maybe god willing and if we all shoot a good one this fall we can post a few photos, and be less serious.
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Huntny:
Thanks I'll see what I can do, Im using a borrowed laptop and Im having trouble keeping connection out here in the woods, their wifi is about like dial up.
By the way nice pics, what part of the state? Most of mine are from Onatrio, and Yates, got 1 in bow only zone in Monroe.
Those deer were all from Tompkins County South of Ithaca, we also hunt Oswego County and the Tug Hill Plateau in the Northerntier...No need to go away...I think typing sometimes is misunderstood...there isn't anyone on here that I'm aware of that picks fights, just sometimes strong opinions get the best of folks...
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Hey I called you a loser because you are, you clearly acknowledged that you will pay up when I come to Maryland to collect and then you will physically assult me. So you know Im telling the truth and you will lose the wager and like a sore loser you will attack me. I didnt question anything about your buck untill you called BS on mine. I didnt come to this fourm to beat my chest, but every post I make progresses further into the "you dont know what you are talkin about" direction. I came to this fourm to discuss the "NYS five year deer plan" my Ideas on how I think it will affect myself and other archers, has been questioned as if I have no experience. When I mention the deer and bear I have taken I get called out as a BSer, accused of being someone named CP, questioned on the state in which I took them. (yours isnt from NY so it dosnt count according to others). And because I dont carry a flash drive with my pics 24-7 again I am questioned go back and check the post where I said I was heading out to check trail cams late last week I am also on vacation, is that alright or should I check with you next time? It dosnt matter if I show you the heads, the tags, and the score sheets you will call BS and say those arent yours (because Id have to block my name, ya know the assult thing that someone here has sunk to), those look like Kansas deer, maybe they were road kills I picked up.
This is a NYS five year deer plan, maybe you should stick to commenting on Maryland hunting instead of just coming here and commenting. As for showing off my heads, it looks like I will be displaying at a booth in Sept. at the Region 8 DEC Hunting and Fishing Days, I'll have 4-5 deer mounts and a bear or two. (and documentation for the non believers that pretty much seem to hang out here) And maybe crow for a few of you.
assult? Do you mean assault? Where did you get your masters a cracker jack box? If you came down here to collect you would be tresspassing, then I would be forced to remove you from the premises(Yes my property is marked with signs). Don't think your assault charge would hold water.
In four years of being on this site, I have had a few encounters with BS'ers. When someone comes on here and starts running there mouth about how they shoot 120+ bucks I want to see them. Had you not been an arse(Yes I know I miss spelled it) and posted the pics I would have been the first to congratulate you.
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Awww man! LOL :o
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So, goes the reason we lose many privileges across the board. We can't ever agree on anything, or meet at a common ground.
There are a lot of us that feel an entitlement when it comes to hunting. If we are given more tags, then they decide to reduce them everyone flips out. Rules change, at least they aren't trying to ban hunting. They are working to try to increase our numbers, both hunter and game. But our discord with each other often makes it easy for antis to step in and control things that get done or not done.....
Very sad sometimes. But as with a lot of things these days, the information highway has two cutting edges. It gets people who never would have discussed anything together, but also brings those that will disagree no mater what together as well. Plus allows those that would try to stop us all together to document our dysfunction.
Upstate, I respect your opinion and you insight. I just see these changes in a diff. light. I know a few guys who were hunters all their lives but gave it up when the cost for a license went way up. So now with the DEC giving you less for your $$$, I can see it turning off more hunters. And how about the guy that is only able to get out a few days each season, He has to pass on that 115 lb. spike because others think thats not what they would shoot? I just see it as detrimental to our sport.
I truly hope I am wrong and you are right, that they are really doing what is in the best interest of the sportsman.
One last thing, tell me your thoughts on the massive amounts of nuisance permits they hand out every year. And how that fits into the equasion??
DG 8)
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Believe me, I'm not in favor of antler restrictions being forced on hunters. I'm really trying to learn more about other earn a buck tag programs. Seems in some areas, that would allow less nuisance permits to be given. As well as put more money in the coffer for the state.
No I'm not real keen on the numbers of those permits issued. Heard stories of them being sold by some land owners, and I understand that farming might not be a lucrative business in NYS but that's just wrong. But then again they were stories from people trying to get permission to hunt property because they had heard there were a bunch of tags to be had....so who knows. The state should be looking at some sort of program for them. How about, the land owner can sell them with rights to hunt and the state takes a cut. They tax everything else to death.... ;)
They are trying to keep hunting alive in NY. Really, they understand the amount of revenue it brings to the state. There are some biologists that are studying what the states stance on land preserves is costing them in wildlife and dollars. The wildlife makes them listen, the dollars and cents are what they really perk up and will work out something for. Hopefully, they get to a point they understand that a renewable resource needs to be managed just like the wildlife, or business in the state. No difference really, you tax a company to a point they leave the state or you leave a forest to mature to a point it can't sustain wildlife you lose. Either way it costs them money.
I know the world needs those places that man hasn't touched. Though a wise man once said, if you hold to tightly to an object it sometimes goes away forever....Hoping that isn't in our lifetime.
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I will chime in on nuisance permits, because I have DMAP's I can use and know the current structure relatively well. Nuisance permits are used as a last resort to help farmers that have a demonstratable loss of revenue due to an over population of deer. First a land owner(s) has to apply for DMAP's and may be granted a number of permits up to (I think) 2 per 100 acres. Only two DMAP's can be used by any hunter, in an effort to prompt farmers to allow more hunters permission. Only after being able to show proof that the use of DMAP's isn't sufficiently decreasing the herd will the DEC investigate the need for nuisance permits. I can tell you from experience that filling a DMAP during the gun season isn't as easy as people think. My brother, uncle and I each filled one in 4-5 years of hunting our friends farm. Although we usually only hunt it a couple days a year. In that time we saw two live bucks between us. My brother passed a one spike buck that would have been his first deer. The other was a 1.5 year old that got shot while I was looking at it in my scope, I thought it was a doe and had just saw the antlers. The guy that shot it was my friend who lives there, the one that imposed his own antler restriction that year. He thought it was a doe too, but didn't look as close as I did ::). That said, this farm won't let me fill a DMAP during bow season or I would fill one every year before I started buck hunting. That's my $0.02 based on 4-5 years of DMAP's.
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i just read the whole thing. here is my opinion. i don't agree with the antler restrictions. i think the hunter should choose his deer depending on if he wants meat or holds out for larger antlers. second i don't mind the youth season as it is only 3 days i just feel it wont help recruit new hunters. i feel if u want to hunt u will youth season or not. i kind of like the idea of the northern season running longer. hunters like to track and sometimes snow arrives later than normal. i don't fully understand the tag situation proposed for bow and muzzleloader season. will u get 1 buck tag for both seasons or 1 for bow and 1 for muzzy. i guess u only can receive a doe permit by applying for a dmp which i don't agree with. i could not imagine being denied a doe tag for early bow and muzzleloader as i like to have 1 deer in the freezer before rifle season. this allows me to pass on yearling bucks and wait for a mature buck. just my .002 on the reg changes. plan on submitting a comment this week.
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I havn't read it yet ,but I would hate to see the northern season run longer,I would like to see it run a week shorter,what happened 2 years ago was just unthinkable-the Benson Massacure,,early winter and the deer were yarded up and here just gunned down where they stood,thats why 5H was changed a few miles to the south..
Where can I read this plan?
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http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html (http://www.dec.ny.gov/animals/7211.html)
There also was a press release from a biologist that explains some confusions.. http://www.myhuntingforum.com/hunting_forum/index.php?topic=5800.0 (http://www.myhuntingforum.com/hunting_forum/index.php?topic=5800.0)
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I'll have to read this--thanks.
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I havn't read it yet ,but I would hate to see the northern season run longer,I would like to see it run a week shorter,what happened 2 years ago was just unthinkable-the Benson Massacure,,early winter and the deer were yarded up and here just gunned down where they stood,thats why 5H was changed a few miles to the south..
Where can I read this plan?
Don't know about the massacre but I guess I never thought about areas further north of me.
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I agree Joe.....That late muzzle loader season, needs to be removed from the northern zone. It wasn't a bad idea when they instated it. There weren't a lot of ML hunters using the early season. But now there are a lot more people utilizing that season.
So having two seasons that allow doe to be taken is just to much.
Not sure how I feel about the DMP issue yet. Seems they are trying to get more money, for the same tags you once bought in your super sportsman.
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Who owns the deer? The property owner?, the state?. I'm not asking to be a jerk, I think it is an interesting question and will receive many answers. I personally dont have an answer as I have yet to think too much about that as I dont own any land. You make my point that if the Old Timers are getting out the State better do something, anything to get the eyounger generation in.
The State of New York owns the deer. They quote the law in the plan
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When are they implementing the plan? 2011 or 2012?
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i noticed how nys claimed ownership of the deer >:(
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They do own the deer. A private land owner still has to buy a license, and follow their game laws.
With the sales of licenses only a month away, I would say they have to wait until next year to do anything.
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New to the board, seems like a great site.
I sent my responses to the DEC. I think we should do everything we can to bolster the youth participation. Unfortunately the special weekend is not going to do it. The problem is much bigger than that, I deal with it everyday with my youth group.
I am definitely not in favor of an early ML season around my area in the middle of Bow season. In my WMU late ML is like a war zone. An early season would be even worse with the better weather. All the deer would go nocturnal so the rest of Bow would be a waste of time. Why hinder a 200,000 person group when you are trying to sell more license's.
I am not in favor of doing away with last years left over tags for 4 days north. That has been a traditional trip for our group for ever and it assures I get a doe most years when I do not get a doe permit - see below.
I do like starting Bow on October 1st
I do not like doing away with the Bow and ML doe tags. In my WMU we have a lot of State Land, so many years I can't even get a doe tag for an area within 60 miles of my house. With gas prices I can not afford to drive that far to hunt much less do any scouting and become familiar with the area. I get my doe every year with my Bow tag, then if I am lucky I get a doe permit and a 2nd doe for my freezer. I usually only shoot 2 deer a year because that is all we eat in a years time. Additionally that allows me to wait for a mature buck, rather than having to shoot the first one that comes by for the freezer.
I am not in favor of antler restrictions. I do not need the State to manage bone, just population. Just because I choose to wait for larger bucks under our current system, does not mean everyone else should. Plus studies show more people are doing that voluntarily anyway all the time.
It just seems to me this proposal contradicts itself all over the place when it comes to trying to get the outcome they want, more participants. I am not sure the people making decisions even understand what is happening in the real world in the current system we have. Lets change the renewal date lengthen the opportunity and not overlap the instruments of take. And then tackle the youth situation and it's problems with a real plan.
Just my 2 cents,
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Flukeman, welcome to the site. All good points and well expressed.
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Welcome to the site Flukeman.......
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Very well put Flukeman. Your last paragraph is spot on!!
Welcome to the site, we might have a few heated discussions sometimes, but we are all here because we love to hunt!!
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Welcome flukeman, Good bunch of folks here,hope you enjoy it.
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Welcome to the club Flukeman.
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Welcome Flukeman, All good points
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Welcome to M.H.F. flukeman!
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Wonder what happened to therealtreeman? He hasn't been on since the 18th....
Must still be downloading pictures of all of his 120inch record book bucks and bears... ;D ;D ;D
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Now-now, It does take longer to load the pictures of the big ones. ;)
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Maybe he's still on vacation? ::) Just as I suspected he was full of BS. Came on here stirred things up and then fled the scene.
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Still think CP got another IP address and a new account..... ::)
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Wonder what happened to therealtreeman? He hasn't been on since the 18th....
Must still be downloading pictures of all of his 120inch record book bucks and bears... ;D ;D ;D
Either that or running his 150 employee empire ::)
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Who's stirring the pot now?!? ::) ;D Cheeks out!!! 8)
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He isn't a mod here.... 8) He can't delete whole threads and have half of the Syracuse/Finger lakes/Salmon river area ready to lynch him.... ;)
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OOOOHHHH , That left a mark didn't it. :o They need a probie designation for Mod's over there. ;)
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LMAO!! Yup, forgive me people..I know not what I do....YET
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I have no power.... :'( :'( I'm a loser...... But I do have Administrators phone number... ;D ;D
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LOL, your not a loser.....RG had your back.... ;)
Sooo Did you call Scott about our new CP here????
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I have no power.... :'( :'( I'm a loser...... But I do have Administrators phone number... ;D ;D
Quit being so rough on yourself. Maybe I will have to get that number the next time I have a complaint.lol ;D ;D