NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan

[therealtreeman]

Brookie,
 How do I know there are bigger lakers? Because I have caught and released many larger. In fact I find the larger ones to be not good eating. I used the Laker as an example, switch it to bass and the 12" limit, you gonna tell me I would make them go the way of the buffalo if I was to keep a few 11" ers?

Antlerless tags I'm with you and I am not saying you have to wait for a P&Y but come guys do you really need to tag  a 1-1/2 or 2-1/2 yr old buck? its not about what each person considers a trophy its about strengthening the heard. If you do not think that letting smaller bucks grow will produce a better herd you are as someone labled me "self centered". It is no coincidence that the two top bucks all time from NY came from the same region in the same year right after there was no hunting years prior due to lack of animals. Yet today with food plots and mineral supplements they still cant seem to break the records. Why is it you can plant a crop with the sole intention of luring animals into shooting range, yet a woman near here was arrested for feeding the deer that came into her back yard? I  know the CWD end of it but again come on really? Dont even get me going on why they sell baits for deer in NYS stores, they are illegal as for as I know statewide. Its all about the state raising money/taxes.

 Also I have seen at times young bucks traveling with 2-3 does and they ignore the doe yet a larger buck comes in the picture and he dogs the does. Had it happen on 2 occasions last fall.
 I hunt the Hi Tor & Stid Hill regions in NY (state land)  and a few smaller state lands. Where do you go? I also hunt private lands but the majority is public.

[ramrod]

so your saying that passing on the buck that had no interest in the doe and shooting the bigger buck that was attempting to breed the doe, is the answer to a better/healthier herd? 

4point, 8 point, makes no difference to me. i tie my tag to venison not my ego.

[stka]

I can only speak for myself, but yes I had to shoot a 1.5-2.5 year old buck (if I wanted one) last year. It was the only one I had in bow range all season, I shot it the last day of SZ archery. I'm not the best bow hunter, but I put a lot of time and effort into getting that big five point buck and wouldn't have been much prouder if it was the monster seven I was looking for all season. Yes, I shot a doe as well, the week before. After I got my "small" buck I continued to look for a bigger one and a good doe, but never got another opportunity. I did pass on four different button bucks (all legal) that a lot of doe hunters would have shot by mistake(legally). We can easily eat 2-3 deer a year, without counting jerky and sharing. I have every intention of doing the same thing again this year if I'm lucky enough. The truth is I probably would have passed on that buck the first few weeks of archery. It would have been just legal with ARs anyway, so they wouldn't have helped . That also happened to be the biggest of the four bucks I've got so far, although I've passed (and missed) bigger in the past.

[therealtreeman]

so your saying that passing on the buck that had no interest in the doe and shooting the bigger buck that was attempting to breed the doe, is the answer to a better/healthier herd? 

4point, 8 point, makes no difference to me. i tie my tag to venison not my ego.

What are you reading? I never said either deer was within range for a shot, or for that matter I never said the older buck was a shooter by my standards. Ego? Check your own, all you talk about is tagging deer no matter what, just so you can boast about what a great hunter you are. As you dont measure success by antler inches, I dont measure it by number of kills. Also wanting to shoot only mature animals dosnt always mean antler inches, I have a 7pt that isnt even 100" that was 8 1/2 years old he was hunted for years by the locals, I chased him for 3 years and I got lucky, to me he is still my best ever. Oh by the way not to brag but to make my point, on public hunting grounds I have 1 B&C, 4 P&Y and 3 black bears one of which is in the book all archery kills. As I said the mature buck is my most memorable, not the one that tasted the best! 

[upstatehunter]

You might want to do a little research as to the habits of the whitetail. Would have to question if those "book" deer were taken in NYS.
The small bucks were with the doe on the off chance she would stand for them. They had probably been trying for a while before you saw them, and she wouldn't. Not because they weren't interested... If she knows there is a bigger, more mature buck in the area nature tells her to wait for him to breed her for a better chance her fawn will be hearty and healthy.
And yes that last statement is bragging. Nothing wrong with that as long as it is in context.
 
You wrote about not seeing a lot of deer on your state lands. Yet then complain if a guy in the same boat shoots a younger deer when he sees it. Seems you have deep set ideas how you are right, and no one, even the state will convince you otherwise.

[therealtreeman]

Upstate,

As usual you are wrong again on many accounts. Again I do not care if a hunter wants to take a immature buck that is an individual choice. Youth hunters should be able to fill their tags with any deer, any season, as long as they follow the seasons bow, gun ect. What I cant stand is the whiners that think the state is going to take food out of their mouths by enforcing an antler restriction.
Three points on one side isn't going to eliminate a lot of bucks from the hit list, but it could/will help.We already have an antler restriction, they just want to change the minium.
 Reasearch the habit of the whitetail? I know you will find fault with this, but I am heading to three different public hunting areas today to check about thirty trail cams, I volunteer my time and equipment and report the numbers of fawns, as well as buck and doe populations in the areas to to wildlife mngmt. What do you do? Oh yes tell everyone about how you rub elbows with politicians BS, who is the elitist here? I have spent over 100 days each year for the last three years in the off season working with wildlife mngmt. donating my time and equipment, at no cost to the state, what are you doing agian? Seems maybe my knowlege of the whitetail to some is a little better than yours.
Since you are so good at picking apart everything I say, note the comment "her fawn will be hearty and healthy." really ? Pick up a book learn about whitail habits, assuming the does I saw were mature which the were, most mature does have two fawns, 1 yr olds mostly have 1 fawn. I know its a technicality but from someone as knowledge and opinionated as you get it right.
I can look back to an earlier post where you said "Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point"  that must have been braggin! The deer and bear I listed were all taken in NY on public hunting grounds.Although I didn't spell it out, lets see this is a forum under "NY State hunting" and I did say they were taken on public hunting grounds. Are you having trouble putting that together still? So what are you questioning?
 You wrote about not seeing a lot of deer on your state lands. Yet then complain if a guy in the same boat shoots a younger deer when he sees it. Seems you have deep set ideas how you are right, and no one, even the state will convince you otherwiseWrong again  first off its illegal to shoot from a boat in NY you should know that "Mr Hunter Education instructor" Second Im not complaining about the antler restrictions try to follow, Im for what the state is saying I also believe more does need to be harvested. Stop all the crying that "I had to pass on a 4 point today, how will I ever feed my family this year." You are big boys wait for a six point, dont be in such a hurry to get home for football.

[ramrod]

As I said the mature buck is my most memorable, not the one that tasted the best!

and this is the main difference between you and i. also i have never boasted about being a great hunter nor do kill numbers mean anything to me. i enjoy hunting for all that hunting offers, the experience w friends n family, personal enjoyment, and most importantly the fine eating it provides for my table

if you enjoy hunting for the chance at an encounter w a mature animal then thats great, i can appreciate that. my only problem is with your mind set is that your self imposed rules and limitations should be everyones and that anyone else that enjoys hunting for different reasons, or has different goals than yours is for some reason "stupid". which in my opinion defines you as an eletist.

how would you and your trophy hunting fraternity feel if ppl were trying to make it law that you had to shoot a small buck before you could shoot a big one? sound stupid?? yup....  but to us hunters that are happy with any buck thats what it feels like when ppl are trying to cram ridiculous restrictions down our throat meanwhile degrading us for having our own opinion.

[stka]

If you do so well on state land, how is the current system not working without increased antler restrictions? You will get them eventually, but then you'll have to accept more hunters in the woods longer chasing your bucks around.

One of my disagreements with antler restrictions is that if you want bigger better head gear (and that is the sole purpose IMO) consider this; There are two 2.5yr old bucks, one is a big fork and the other is a basket eight. You want the basket eight taken out? That fork has a lot less chance turning into a P&Y for you, but he'll be the one passing his genes on the next year. There will be plenty of antler restriction areas next year, you could consider looking for state land there to hunt.

[ship of fools]

Each person has their own definition of "trophy"  ........  and reasons why they hunt and no one has any right to question their motivation or actions as long as they are legal.....  anyone who tries to over ride the law with their personal beliefs is the elitist.

To each their own 

I shot a beautiful 8 point with the rifle but was way more proud of my 4 point with the bow this past year ......  and after 15+ years of not hunting when my kids were little the buck i got last year after 20 dry years was definitely a trophy.

I don't have time but i have a picture of my freezer stuffed full of venison.......  so between the meat and the time in the field these past couple of years have been a major success ....   if i hadn't been able to fill the freezer i still enjoyed every minute in the field.

As far as the regs go .... the primary purpose should be management of the herd. There seems to be enough room that it would be possible to establish an area with antler restrictions if there is demand for it.

[ramrod]

Upstate,

  first off its illegal to shoot from a boat in NY you should know that "Mr Hunter Education instructor"

 

[eyehi]

rtm if u think antler restrictions wont affect most hunters u have no idea what the deer population looks like in northern ny many hunters wait all year just to see a buck no we are going to start counting points. not me i will shoot first and count later. lets see some pics of these monster bow kills

[Cheeks13]

Upstate,

As usual you are wrong again on many accounts. Again I do not care if a hunter wants to take a immature buck that is an individual choice. Youth hunters should be able to fill their tags with any deer, any season, as long as they follow the seasons bow, gun ect. What I cant stand is the whiners that think the state is going to take food out of their mouths by enforcing an antler restriction.
Three points on one side isn't going to eliminate a lot of bucks from the hit list, but it could/will help.We already have an antler restriction, they just want to change the minium.
 Reasearch the habit of the whitetail? I know you will find fault with this, but I am heading to three different public hunting areas today to check about thirty trail cams, I volunteer my time and equipment and report the numbers of fawns, as well as buck and doe populations in the areas to to wildlife mngmt. What do you do? Oh yes tell everyone about how you rub elbows with politicians BS, who is the elitist here? I have spent over 100 days each year for the last three years in the off season working with wildlife mngmt. donating my time and equipment, at no cost to the state, what are you doing agian? Seems maybe my knowlege of the whitetail to some is a little better than yours.
Since you are so good at picking apart everything I say, note the comment "her fawn will be hearty and healthy." really ? Pick up a book learn about whitail habits, assuming the does I saw were mature which the were, most mature does have two fawns, 1 yr olds mostly have 1 fawn. I know its a technicality but from someone as knowledge and opinionated as you get it right.
I can look back to an earlier post where you said "Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point"  that must have been braggin! The deer and bear I listed were all taken in NY on public hunting grounds.Although I didn't spell it out, lets see this is a forum under "NY State hunting" and I did say they were taken on public hunting grounds. Are you having trouble putting that together still? So what are you questioning?
 You wrote about not seeing a lot of deer on your state lands. Yet then complain if a guy in the same boat shoots a younger deer when he sees it. Seems you have deep set ideas how you are right, and no one, even the state will convince you otherwiseWrong again  first off its illegal to shoot from a boat in NY you should know that "Mr Hunter Education instructor" Second Im not complaining about the antler restrictions try to follow, Im for what the state is saying I also believe more does need to be harvested. Stop all the crying that "I had to pass on a 4 point today, how will I ever feed my family this year." You are big boys wait for a six point, dont be in such a hurry to get home for football.

I believe Upstate was using the old adage " In the same boat" to refer to someone in the same situation. I'm pretty sure he doesn't hunt from a boat. You have your opinions and other people have theirs. Agree to disagree and move on. Although I love a good argument I think this has gotten out of hand. Kinda makes me wonder why you would join this site and immediately start to argue with everyone?!? CP is that you? Cheeks out!!!

[adkbrookie]

+1 

this is turning into a polarizing bunch of bs, like cheeks said. done after this.

rtm, stick to your places, i worked hard and found mine myself, you can hunt there too if you find them. also, it sounds like i hunt in a different manner than you and just because i am seeing deer doesn't mean i am shooting them. i am surprised you don't have a better idea about deer herds with this vol. work you are talking about. good hunting to you.

older does tend to have 2 fawns if there is enough food. when there isn't enough they reabsorb one of the 2.

food balls for deer are a point source food. you concentrate the deer a lot more than a food plot so things like CWD do tend to transfer a lot easier. "the solution to polution is dilution", think of pathogens as polution.

something to think on: deer can do a ton of damage to forest ecosystems. it is generally easier to build the deer pop back up than regenerate healthy forest in places like the sz.

i am plenty happy to shoot a 2.5 yr old buck, and then keep on hunting not watching football.

stka, i got what you were saying, just trying to add something constructive. love the big old wiley does. earn a second buck is a great idea imo, from a management standpoint.

upstate, i have seen what you are talking about with the land buy ups first hand and it is too bad.... what you said is spot on imo

[drobertsinMaryland]

Oh boy this thread is hot. Hey realtreeman, I am still waiting to see your 100+ inchers.

[Bowhunter 1261]

Inch by inch..........death by a thousand cuts...... I remember when friends of mine who were smokers, NEVER EVER thought the day would come when they couldn't walk into their favorite watering hole and light up. They used to tell me,"that will NEVER happen"............inch by inch........ Just sayin