NYS DEC 5 Year Deer Management Plan

[upstatehunter]

Yeah, you got me. Don't do a thing to help NYS hunting or fishing. Just sit here on the puter waiting to pick apart someones post.
Kind of thing us woodchucks do to self centered , egotistical elitists....
The buck I spoke of is the only buck that was tagged by myself in the last 5 years. Because the coyotes ate the other three I had shot with my bow. Yet still filled out those tags and called them in as a killed deer. Self imposed yes, but the way I felt it should be done. Was my fault for leaving the deer overnight. And that didn't warrant an excuse to go shoot another. Guess the state sure knows how to manage the coyote herd though HUH?
Um yeah, same boat, same situation....guess that was another woodchuck term as well...Sorry will refrain from those in the future.
But haven't seen where you couldn't float a river or creek with a non-motorized boat to hunt deer, as long as they aren't in the water.
Will have to do more checking on that....Ahhh nah just woodchuck it, and do it. They ain't got enough game wardens to catch ya any ways...
 
So just so I don't get something else wrong....You spent all these hours helping the state with deer management, over 100. Yet "they" don't know how to manage deer in your opinion?
And I quote; "Im 51 and I am willing to stop buying NYS licenses and go hunt other states if this new youth and muzzleloader season go through. Reasons, I can afford to do so and I want to shoot trophy bucks. The earlier start is usless because the temps. are too warm and the foliage is too thick. (even at the Oct 15 th start times) I can go on all day about how stupid this youth hunt is from a standpoint of ruining the archery season, not to mention the danger of not being able to see whats behing your target (dense foilage) and the possibilities that Jr shoots dad or grandpa while they are driving deer to the kids. The NYSDEC is showing that they have no clue on how to manage the heard or how to attract new hunters.
The guys I know that have stopped hunting in NY have done so mostly because they cannot afford to drive a hundred miles each way just to find public hunting grounds. Most landowners allow only family or friends to hunt their lands or they want a few thousand to lease a few hundred acres a year, so dont even suggest knocking on doors. Been there done it!
We need to get vocal on this subject and let the state know that the few license sales they gain will be offset by disgruntled archers that will go out of state, or just give it up altogether, due to the lack of deer we will see after the woods are thrashed with gun hunters." End quote
So why do you spend all this time to help them? Why not go to another state and help them? They have it all together and are doing it right. After all you can afford to and they gots better deers....

[hunts2long]

Boy, this is getting good. I have alot to say but, I think the walleyes are going to hit early today....so, see you later....Upstate, stay cool....lol....I'm biting my tongue on this topic....hunts2long

[upstatehunter]

Hope they are biting H2L!!   A few fillets on the grill sounds great!
 
Don't bite your tongue to hard, makes them hard to eat and taste like blood...

[bogmanjr]

HOLY SMOKES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  I leave for the wood's for a couple of week's and look what I'm missing. Upstate's got a new handle, ramrod's counting, the new guy is managing NY to be like Kansas, I think CP's hding in there some where. Still waiting for the c-mere deer refrence. Then we will know for sure.

Face it, Bit@#in here isn't really helping do anything about the management of your dee herd. I do know this, There were very few deer where I live in the 80's and 90's. Many years of limited antlerless deer tags fixed that. Now we can buy them over the counter as supplies last. I hunt for the whole experience and for meat. If I have a buck tag left 3" antlers is all it will take.

You do what you want I'll do it my way as long as it's legal who care's.............

[therealtreeman]

I dint know where you get the idea I do not see deer, and that the state does a poor job on management. I said early season we see very little due to the warmer temps, and dense foliage. By opening earlier on Oct 1st (which wont effect you) the state and NYSBHA think they are doing us a favor, so we should be willing to accept a week of gun (youth & ML) and not be concerned.
I said the state was stupid, I did not call anyone here stupid, the name calling started when I was dubbed an elitist and the number of "I"s used in a post had some sort of significance.
I'm speaking from a SZ archers point of view, very few of you hunt public lands in SZ, even the one that claims he does but cant say where, so really you are not qualified to comment on the conditions, just as I have not hunted the NZ in years and I will not comment as if I was an expert as most of you claim to be in the SZ.
 
Why would the state ever ask hunters to shoot a smaller buck first then persue a mature animal? Makes zero sense. I can see the harvest a doe before getting a buck tag. Do you know anything about buck to doe ratios? There was a time in the recent past where SZ antlerless tags were not valid through most of the early bow season, a lot of us archers voiced our opinions about passing on does early when we saw quite a few. In part because of that they changed it to validate antlerless tags in early season. So many times I do take a doe early.

Nowhere did I say "every" mature doe has two fawns, or every one year old has only one fawn. As with the "in the same boat" comment I was doing as you all seem to do, picking apart someones thoughts because I want to show superiority, kinda rude isn't it?

Heavy racked 4 pt and basket 8 both 2.5 years old? You cannot determine which one has better genetics based on that. That opens up another (I'm sure) argument about taking deer based on age and antler size. I dont suggest it, but on hunts I have taken in other states the outfitters have restrictions min 140" or 4.5 yrs. Shoot below min. and there is about 1k fine. If the law is 3pts on one side min. then take the 8 you are going to anyway. From what I have seen the "you cant eat the antlers" crowd will shoot the horns every time even if they have a pockfull of antlerless tags. Lets be honest the doe is better eating I have had an 8.5 yr old buck and it wasnt real tender. Its good for sausage.

I am not at home this weekend but to the doubters I will send along a picture when I get back. I would have posted  last week but I didnt want to be accused of "braggin" in fact I do find it funny that some of you call me out for what I have done and you feel it necessary to show off your bucks and in one case your shooting form. On another thread one of you talks of entering birds in a turkey contest, and one ridiculas thread you actually cout the # of posts and at least one of you is involved in that. I dont care in fact you should be proud of your trophys, but to throw stones and make challanges unless you are willing to eat crow, or maybe we could put a wager on it! Any takers? Im sure once I post a pic or two you are going to question what state it was taken, blah,blah,blah.
I do have the tags all from NY, they were taken fair chase, and although I cannot prove the exact location like I am sure some of you will want they are all public land deer. I also have the score sheets B&C P&Y offical.

[therealtreeman]

[You do what you want I'll do it my way as long as it's legal who care's.............
[/quote]

Thats just it do it your way I'll do it mine. Id just like to ba able to do it my way without the state screwing up the  bow season by putting a week long gun season in the middle, then tell me "but we are giving you two extra weeks at the begining. Give the warm buggy 2 weeks to the kids and smokepolers but leave our bow season alone.
The plan we are discussing here is not just the antler restrictions. The way NY works its all or nothing in the plan and once addopted it will never go back even if it proves usless, 5yrs=forever.

[upstatehunter]

And once again, more discussion would be warranted with the state on the 5 year plan.

Though "I" would love to pick this last post apart, really no reason to. You hunt the way you see fit, you believe the state should do what you believe. Bottom line is they will(and do) make regulations they believe are necessary. We all just have to live with it, or hunt elsewhere....
 I'm thinking Md. would be a good start....

[therealtreeman]

Upsate,

Yes you did get it wrong since we are splitting hairs. I said over 100 days not hours. Big difference, not that you do either.
 
The buck I spoke of is the only buck that was tagged by myself in the last 5 years. Because the coyotes ate the other three I had shot with my bow. Yet still filled out those tags and called them in as a killed deer. Self imposed yes, but the way I felt it should be done. Was my fault for leaving the deer overnight. And that didn't warrant an excuse to go shoot another. Guess the state sure knows how to manage the coyote herd though HUH?

Smallest buck I have shot in the last 5 years is a 130" 8 point.(not that I haven't tried to shoot smaller) Had coyotes get the last two bucks I shot with my bow. Called the tag in as a kill.

[therealtreeman]

Upstate:

Sorry I keep losing my conection and it sends when it shuts down

Started to say, which story is true, was it 3 coyote loses or 2?
Ive always notcied that the story seems to change at time when guys lie/brag. When you actually live the story it usually dosnt change, at least not till old age and you are not old.

I did say the NYDEC does not know how to manage the heard, based on the new proposal I was speaking of. Ya know letting gun hunters come in for a week in the middle of bow season, kick the crap outta the woods, spook the deer nocturnal. If you as a bow hunter do not see that as being a horrible idea, for what ever reason, then I can see why you only recover 25% or 33% (depending on which story is good for the day) of what you shoot. Wonder how may you hit and not even the coyotes can stop so you can recover the rack. Sounds to me like you are more of a antler hunter than I am.

[upstatehunter]

So what was your point?  Yeah the bucks the coyotes got to before me were smaller, and yeah I counted them as kills. Yeah the only one that came into my hands to process and eat was the 8. Oh and when the head was done at the taxidermists, I lost my job and didn't have the funds to finish paying for it. A group of guys from this site thought it would be nice to help me out. That they did. They showed me that through their selflessness, that we are a large family. So no matter what, I may not agree with your ideas or way of doing so. But will defend your privilege to do so until the end.

Yeah 100 days instead of hours makes my point look so wrong.....  
 
So lets split some hairs, Yes I mistyped. Both should have said three. Sorry, once again the woodchuck coming out in me. Not the liar.
Never had a problem with recovering deer until the last few years. The dogs here have gotten to a point that if you don't see it go down, you have a hard time getting to it before they do. Helped a young man find his 8 point he shot the first day of archery a few years ago. The deer ran right under my stand. We were only 30 minutes or less behind tat deer, and the coyotes had the whole hind quarters gone when we chased the off it. Why I have been trying to get them to leave the coyote season open through Turkey season. So I guess you need to hunt the northern zone a little before commenting.
 
I got the idea you don't see deer by your post.... "Come hunt the southern zone before you comment on deer movement and activity, in fact come hunt the state land and when you go days without even seeing a doe, tell me I don’t know what I am talking about. I am not talking about trophy deer Im saying anything."
I have hunted the southern zone, a lot. Had permission to hunt one of the largest tracks of farm lands in a SZ area. Did very well there.
Hunted state land for a number of years with a good group of guys from an archery club in Scotia. Did well there too.
Will still be willing to bet, you could come up here and be let loose on the Siamese wilderness area of 24000 acres and you would be hard pressed to see a deer let alone shoot one.
So in closing, we could continue to debate this for days. Wouldn't change a dang thing. So you do yours, I'll do mine. 

[Bowhunter 1261]

Has anyone on this site did any research on the person who is in charge of the DEC? Try googling him and check his background and history. It may or may not affect your veiw of whats going on in NY, but its always good to know who your dealing with, and the agenda they might have.

  I love the whole exp. of hunting, and I'm very protective of my rights. I want to be able to spend as much time enjoying our heritage as poss.  Blind faith in the powers that be, can get you burned. I hope they are truly looking out for our best interests.

DG

[drobertsinMaryland]

I think crossbows are being intoduced to New York this coming season.

[bogmanjr]

I think crossbows are being intoduced to New York this coming season.

For archery season.................    

[therealtreeman]

My mistake Upstate I didn't mean I do not see deer all season, but there are a a lot of times early that I see little or nothing and other guys report the same. If you will look back I started out by making an argument for not allowing the youth and ML season during bow. The NYSDEC seems to think that will sell many more licenses, you yourself stated you have seen adults brag about cheating on the youth turkey season, and to me this is another chance for low life's to do the same, not to mention screw up the woods for archers. Adding two more weeks to bow in the SZ,  earlier than the approx. 10/15 start is not going to sweeten the deal. Again it is too warm/hot and deer do not move, so giving us two more almost useless weeks where we can go sit in the woods and swat flies is total BS. You  all jumped on me like I was coming after the youth. I suggested giving them the 2 weeks but no one has a comment on that, why because everyone knows it will not be productive and the very youth we are trying to interest in hunting will lose interest. Then guys chime in about how the weather makes no difference. Again BS, it could very well be the #1 determining factor in seeing deer. Then mention I enjoy trophy huntin and all those that dint care to look for mature bucks get their hackles up and start going to the name calling, I dint shoot little bucks, all the more for you, you dint hunt for big bucks all the more for me.
We have a huge coyote problem here also, that's why I trap and hunt them. I'm not criticizing but if it were me and the yotes were beating me to three out of four deer Id be on that trail an hour after I hit him. I have never seen a deer unless poorly hit live much more than 10 minutes, and yes I have had a few bad hits.
All I was trying to say here was this plan to interrupt the SZ bow season with a week of gun is crap, if you all think I am out to spoil your kids fun or to the parents that think this will be another good way to cheat the system (I have heard them brag too) and Im ruining your fun, you really are self centered. Learn to hunt the way we all did Ive hunted with the old boys and I do OK.

[huntny30]

I'm more confused than a dairy cow on astro turf right now after reading this thread...I'm not even sure what everone is arguing about...one thing I do know is I have some more trail cam pictures from the Northerntier...I'm moving my camera to my spot in the Southerntier soon...Early Bow starts September 27th and next year at this time I will be in the Persian Gulf...Thanks for all the reading though, it is way too hot outside right now anyway...