Where have all the sportsmen gone?

[Jiffy Man]

Tonight I went to check out a stand in Stratham that I have left alone for a few days. It had the most sign around it all season. So, 20 minutes before the end of legal hunting time, as I sit excitedly waiting to see if a deer will come through and I get to fill my M tag I hear noise from behind me...a lot of noise. I figure...hmm, the last time I was here a deer came from behind me only it was to dark to shoot. They don't usually do that, especially not twice. Then I see them, three hunters charging through the woods spread out in a line. They were not hunting, they were walking. They must have been trying to get back to there vehicle before it got too dark. I start whistling figuring as soon as they see me they will go around...they were heading straight for the swamp that the deer bed in.

No such luck! One of them looked up at me and waved as he walked under my stand and proceeded into the swamp. The other two met up and looked at me and then proceeded into the swamp. Not 30 seconds later I see a flag running through the swamp from the end of a finger of hardwoods that the deer use as an entry point. I was so mad I started to get dizzy and had to climb down out of my stand!

This sort of thing used to be a "once in a while" thing. Now it happens more than ever.

What has happened? I learned a long time ago that when you see another hunter on stand you try to avoid them. I can't remember the last time I saw a hunter avoid me in the woods. They always act like they have more right there than I do. Or they act like I'm not even a hunter. This "every man for himself" attitude makes me sick.

There is a difference between hunters and sportsmen. Sportsmen stick together and try to help each other. Hunters don't care about anyone but themselves and their own success in the woods. It gets harder every day not to adopt the same attitude in the woods.

It's pretty sad when I have to log onto a web forum about hunting to find real sportsmen (with the exception of the couple of hunting buddies I have.)

Sorry for such a long rant...Tim

[MnSportsman]

I learned a long time ago that when you see another hunter on stand you try to avoid them. I can't remember the last time I saw a hunter avoid me in the woods. They always act like they have more right there than I do.

Same type of folks pull right in on ya  & speed by when your anchored and you're fishin. Or , wake ya with their boat when your up to the top of your waders trying to set out dekes, or pull them in.. Or set up their stand within 100 yards of yours, & your stand has been there for some time... They must not have had the time to walk the perimeter of where they want to put their stand to see if anyone else was there before they were...

Around here, they call en "Cityiots">>>> a cross between City & idiots.

   You unfortunately have to get used to them or find land farther out than they want to travel in... I know it's crappy, but it's the way things have become , as far as I can tell.

I think I would have probably yelled at them that it wasa crappy thing to do to ruin my hunt... But that, of course , is me. ( I am using "gentle" language" here, If I yelled anything out it wouldn't be allowed to be printed here.)
 
I know your trouble on this, but I have no more to say but, go  out farther than they are willing to go.

I agree with ya.. It's a bunch of crap...

[knurren]

Or set up their stand within 100 yards of yours, & your stand has been there for some time...

See, you already see the problem he has with another hunter.

Tim, I can't believe it.  That is just ridiculous.  You gotta approach the land owner with that idea you had.  That is not a big enough piece of woods for people to be coming in and doing that kind of crap.  I tend to wonder if your "friend" didn't suggest this spot to a few of his buddies to push.  I wouldn't put it past him.

I'll call you tomorrow and maybe we can sit somewhere in the afternoon and fill out M tags.  I'm really sorry to hear about your troubles.  Many who read this don't know, but he has been hunting this spot for 20 years and has had a guy who lives near by move in on him within the last 5 years.  This guy feels just as entitled as the three hunters that pushed the swamp at dusk and acts like Tim is in the way even though Tim has 15 years seniority hunting this area.  It's just a bad situation, and there is nothing we can do with these kinds of people.


I always seem to look at it in this context.  If you're a grizzly bear and you've been snagging salmon and another bear moves in on your spot, what would you do?  To a degree, some of us still rely on the food we shoot and put in the freezer.  Maybe not the degree of a bear who will hibernate all winter, but you see my point.  It is not completely outside our nature to want to fight for our own territories; especially against people who feel entitled to the point they aren't even wanting to share.  Rather, they just want to take what is not theirs.  It is sickening that there are laws that protect unethical behavior.  But what can we do... maybe I read too much into it, but it's simple math.  Fight for what is yours.  It is the same people who set traps within 20 feet of yours on the ice, or as pointed out earlier, do laps around your boat while you try to fish.  Why are these people protected?

Why are litterers and thieves so protected as well.  Some of us know how it feels to have a tree stand stolen and to have the suspicion of who did it but no proof.  It's hard not to dwell and wonder why these people have so many rights.

[Jiffy Man]

Through the years, no one has promoted sharing the woods (with hunters and non-hunters) as I have. Now I feel like I am just leaving myself open to be taken advantage of.

Oh well, at least the deer are showing signs of increased movement. I pretty much just need to adjust my attitude and thinking while in the woods or I will never be able to enjoy being there.

[bassranger]

I hear ya. There is a spot I hunt where I use to have my wife drop me off and pick me up, never saw a person in there. Last year do to or work schedules this was not possible so I have to drive my truck. All of a sudden there's a few other groups of guys hunting in there, you could call it a coincidence but I believe they saw my truck parked there often and figured it most be a good spot. One guy put his tree stand a stones throw away from mine, Yet to see him in it which is good for him. Glad I scouted it out for them

[HuntinFool]

Such is the distinct reason I reside in the great state of Alaska. More country,less roads, fewer people. I can imagine how you feel, as Ive been havin to "share" some of my more favorite fishing holes and even having to fight others to remain there. As far as having to draw a weapon to protect a relatives land from arsonists bent on revenge for me escorting them out of the area and turning them into the troopers for snagging king salmon and keeping wayyy over there limit. We permit thorofare.Fish all day there if ya want. We dont mind if ya wanna stay the nite on a sandbar, but no fires, no discharge of weapons, and for gods sake take your trash and beer cans with you.  And no poaching of fish or game! We finally had to post the property last summer due to this and due to people who believe they own the place.  I find it not so hard however to hunt in peace.  Most of the places i hunt for bear or moose and  whatever else is either not easily accessible to the average joe or it is just to far up the road. that and ive got some "secret spots"  but there beginning to be more pilgrims here.

[knurren]

One other forum I belong to, Alaska4x4Network, has a lot of stories about trail closures and things like that due to dumping.  I also hear of a lot of people getting burglarized in Alaska.  It's really like the wild west out there... and it seems that when there are problems, they're much bigger.  Here most of the time it is people just being discourteous... no major problem.

I can't remember if it was last year or the year before, but I remember hearing about a few guys in trucks that tried to drive across the tundra to get the caribou they shot.  Well... if anyone knows anything about the tundra when it's not completely frozen, you know you can't really drive on it.  They got stuck pretty bad and I believe they were fined and lost their license.  It was a big deal out there. 

[Jiffy Man]

One other forum I belong to, Alaska4x4Network, has a lot of stories about trail closures and things like that due to dumping.  I also hear of a lot of people getting burglarized in Alaska.  It's really like the wild west out there... and it seems that when there are problems, they're much bigger.  Here most of the time it is people just being discourteous... no major problem.

I can't remember if it was last year or the year before, but I remember hearing about a few guys in trucks that tried to drive across the tundra to get the caribou they shot.  Well... if anyone knows anything about the tundra when it's not completely frozen, you know you can't really drive on it.  They got stuck pretty bad and I believe they were fined and lost their license.  It was a big deal out there. 

I can't tell you how many places I use to go target practicing that are closed now because of idiots dumping. It's usually people that shoot there as well.

[HuntinFool]

haha yea man them boys wasnt too smart, there trucks sat out there for quite a while.......then they finally allowed em to get them out. theres a few trail closures sure, but thats cause of all the stupid kids that go out and trash the place. burnin cars, dumpin trash, shootin up everything in sight, leavin old appliances and shootin them up....its damned retarded.   need to start beatin kids like the good ol days

[MnSportsman]

Just going back to the title of this topic...

"Where have all the Sportsmen gone?"

They're still out there.

They just keep going out...... further & further out...
 

[upstatehunter]

We live in different times. Growing up every group of hunters in this area had their own place to go. We had areas that all used as well. I can't remember how many Friday nights my dad would call guys to see where they were hunting in the morning. So we could go to others d not bother them. We did deer drives for the most part, and sometime the groups would work together in areas to push deer to each other. We all had a place to go and deer to shoot, but today some 30 plus years later most of the land has been sold to make developments or bought by non-hunters and posted. One guy that has over 900 acres decided that one group would get permission to hunt and patrol it to keep others off.
(we used to get his yellow card every year to hunt his land) Found out later the guys who hunt this land told him he needed to keep most of the locals off because we are all violators. Even though two years ago they was arrested for shooting the mechanical deer by DEC. Also the groups that hunt together are still have a few of the old timers in them, and they think nothing of going into someone elses area and driving the crap out of it. As we lose hunting land, ethics get crowded to the back of the brain as well. When I hear them start driving(they yell through the drive) I just go for a stroll along the watch line. I know where every one is so as I walk along I make sure to yell hey to everyone. They combat that by going on weekday mornings when they know I work. So it's a uphill battle for most to find and keep an area that is all yours to hunt. Especially around here as the forever wasted land of the state holds very few deer. Pushing hunters to hunt small tracts of private land. JMO of why people are like they are today.

[turkey nuts]

Tonight I went to check out a stand in Stratham that I have left alone for a few days. It had the most sign around it all season. So, 20 minutes before the end of legal hunting time, as I sit excitedly waiting to see if a deer will come through and I get to fill my M tag I hear noise from behind me...a lot of noise. I figure...hmm, the last time I was here a deer came from behind me only it was to dark to shoot. They don't usually do that, especially not twice. Then I see them, three hunters charging through the woods spread out in a line. They were not hunting, they were walking. They must have been trying to get back to there vehicle before it got too dark. I start whistling figuring as soon as they see me they will go around...they were heading straight for the swamp that the deer bed in.

No such luck! One of them looked up at me and waved as he walked under my stand and proceeded into the swamp. The other two met up and looked at me and then proceeded into the swamp. Not 30 seconds later I see a flag running through the swamp from the end of a finger of hardwoods that the deer use as an entry point. I was so mad I started to get dizzy and had to climb down out of my stand!

This sort of thing used to be a "once in a while" thing. Now it happens more than ever.

What has happened? I learned a long time ago that when you see another hunter on stand you try to avoid them. I can't remember the last time I saw a hunter avoid me in the woods. They always act like they have more right there than I do. Or they act like I'm not even a hunter. This "every man for himself" attitude makes me sick.

There is a difference between hunters and sportsmen. Sportsmen stick together and try to help each other. Hunters don't care about anyone but themselves and their own success in the woods. It gets harder every day not to adopt the same attitude in the woods.

It's pretty sad when I have to log onto a web forum about hunting to find real sportsmen (with the exception of the couple of hunting buddies I have.)

Sorry for such a long rant...Tim

                                   
                                                 tim sounds like you know where the sportsmen are already ..the real question is where are their ethics !!!!!!
                  i have a freind who was actually threatened at gun point by another hunter who was sitting in my freinds stand as he arrived there one morning !!!!!!!!!!! un beleivable but very true

[Jiffy Man]

I believe a lot of it has to do with the unit M antlerless permits. Every year they increase the number of permits by 500 and every year they sell out of them. This year there were 6000 permits issued and they are almost all gone.

That's 6000 hunters in unit M! I wonder if the local zoo sees that many people in one day?

[bassranger]

  Yeah I don't agree with the amount of permits they give out each year.  From what I can tell from being in the woods all year is that there is not enough doe's to be removing that many from the herd. I heard that that wanted to remove 3000 doe's from rockingham county this year so why not give out that many permits. granted not everyone will tag out but if by chance they do then they just removed double of what they wanted.

[knurren]

I don't think after last winter they were in a position to offer that many permits, but they did.  I don't understand why they do things the way they do sometimes.  Now I know why there are SO many anti-hunters... even I'm sick of other hunters at this point... I can say that much.  Share the woods, fine, I get it, but I keep running into others who think they own it.  Anticosti is almost worth the $4000 just to get away from some of the weekend warriors... let alone the great experience Ben and his parents had up there.

I scheduled and completed my bow hunter's safety course right after my hunter's safety course.  I'm getting into archery next year to extend the season and be able to spend more time hunting during the season with the least amount of pressure.  I thought that muzzleloader wouldn't be as big this year but even jiffyman pointed out that it seems like everyone and their brother got inlines over the summer.

There was a guy in Wildlife Taxidermy the night before muzzleloader opened.  He already had the muzzleloader but needed bullets and powder and all the accessories.  He made his intention of hunting the next morning without even sighting in or practicing with the muzzleloader clear and he was dead serious about it.  Maybe a muzzleloader safety course should be required like the bow hunter's safety course?