up here in n. maine we have huge clearcuts. some thousands of yards long. i have a rem. 700 in 7mm mag that fits the bill. killed a doz. deer and a moose with it. none went more than 40 yrds.before folding up. and believe it or not i havent lost much meat either. it does put a hole in them but make a heart/ lung shot everytime you dont have to worry about ruining meat. longest shot was 364 yrds. on a 6pt. even with a 5-10mph wind i still took him through both lungs resting on a stump. some consider this caliber overkill but for up here i think it really excells. recoils about the same as a 30'06 and in lighter grain loads is extremely flat shooting. for short range thick woods i have to agree the 30-30 is hard to beat for ease of use and effectiveness. killed my second deer w/ my uncles 30-30.