Deer Management

[Mentiply]

A over populated deer heard and a cold winter will kill more deer than anything else. As for antler restrictions I think they are a great way to get hunters out of the sport. I shoot a deer for food not for a wall mount. If I could do both then all the better but I would be one unhappy hunter watching a good size deer walk by because he didn't have good enough antlers.

[DeerReaver]

In general, nuisance permits in Western NY reduce the herd more then anything else.  Considering our communties are rural, agricultural havens there are large plots of uninterrupted land for the deer to roam.  Conversely, those very same farms need to reduce the population of crop damaging deer.  We have a very health herd, so I'm not complaining about the permits...unless I find out the animals are being wasted after being killed.

As of any restrictions on hunting (antler or other)...absolutely NOT!!  Like FrankM, I have a limited amount of time to hunt.  Between work and family, I get 1 day a week to hunt and whether it's gun or bow, I'm shooting for meat.  I don't care if it's a doe or buck (other then a yearling) I want the meat in the freezer.  IF i manage to harvest 2 deer, then I'm very particular with the next deer taken, however, I've never taken more then 2 in a year so I haven't been concerned with taking a trophy animal.

[halfrack33]

ok well im glad i got some response. the way i was looking at it was that we have N. bow season, N. early muzzleloader, N. late muzzleloader, S. bow and S. muzzleloader to get "meat." i hunt for meat too but seeing that there's so much time available to shoot a doe (at least 2 actually) and get that meat, i'm more selective about what bucks im gonna shoot so i have something good sized to chase after each year.

[adkRoy]

ok well im glad i got some response. the way i was looking at it was that we have N. bow season, N. early muzzleloader, N. late muzzleloader, S. bow and S. muzzleloader to get "meat." i hunt for meat too but seeing that there's so much time available to shoot a doe (at least 2 actually) and get that meat, i'm more selective about what bucks im gonna shoot so i have something good sized to chase after each year.

That is the beauty of the way the system is set up now.  You have a choice of what to shoot.  There is nobody saying you have to shoot the first deer you see. You have every right to shoot the deer you want.  With Antler restrictions, you would not be able to shoot a deer that you would want too.

[upstatehunter]

The only other aspect I look at is states with antler restrictions, most(not all) are go to spots for hunters paying to shoot a large buck. Bringing a considerable amount of revenue to that state or area. NY is not a go to state. Hunters from Penn. have a better chance of a large buck, Some still do come to my area because of the mountain mystic of that old gnarly buck. I have lived here 47 years, seen a few that would make anyone happy to have paid to get. Though they were almost in accessable(miles from any road, and only seen for a split second, never to be seen again). Then when I think about it the two guys from NJ a number of years ago (80's). They loaded up a sled with stuff for the weekend in the Vanderwacker mountain forest preserve. Started walking in only to have a 13 point buck, walk into the trail ahead of them and wait till they untied a gun from the sled, load it and shoot him??? go figure. I made a choice five years ago not to shoot small bucks, up until then I was successful for 15 years straight. I haven't shot a buck since(with the rifle), guess I'm doing my part to age the buck population. But most of the locals here don't care what it is, Plus side is they are done early so I have less company in the woods. Down side is without competition from small bucks the larger ones never need to travel much to have doe to breed.
Just another rant from a Adirondack hunter trying to make our woods more enjoyable. I have seen guys give up hunting because they just can't seem to see or shoot the trophy they are looking for.(like T.V. shows them) Maybe if there were more bucks that fit their requirements they would still be hunting.

[DeerReaver]

I have seen guys give up hunting because they just can't seem to see or shoot the trophy they are looking for.(like T.V. shows them) Maybe if there were more bucks that fit their requirements they would still be hunting.

Please don't take offense Upstatehunter, but I'm not sad that people like this have left our sport.  I would just assume have people in the woods that respect the outdoors, respect the health of the herd, and respect the non-hunting community.  Generally, trophy hunters do not fit into the above mentioned categories...if the guys you know where friends and were respectful, then I'm sorry they were obsessed enough with a trophy animal that they gave up on hunting.

A trophy animal should be a difficult accomplishment...a hunter should put in absurd amounts of time and energy to "earn" their reward.  Obviously luck plays a part in ultimately harvesting a big animal, however, a good hunter reduces the margin of luck by identifying the likely location to ambush the trophy. 

A "trophy" for me is a successful hunt, culminating with an ethical, humane kill.  I don't care if it's a doe, spike, fork, or eight point (to date, my largest animal) each animal hunted is a trophy.  Some day I may focus on and harvest an "old gnarly buck" but I will certainly never measure the success of my hunting career on whether or not I harvest a mature whitetailed buck.

[FrankM]

There are plenty of mature bucks in the area where I hunt (9X).  However you seldom see them or you really have to hike back into some rough thickets to find them.  That's what makes them trophies.  I have seen probably a half dozen really big bucks in my 35 years of deer hunting.  I see most of them during bow season.    Anyone who thinks antler restrictions means trophy bucks for every one has been watching too many hunting shows.  Every deer I have ever shot is a trophy to me.  Someday I may get a real wallhanger but I still enjoy the freedom to choose to shoot a spike or fork if I want.

[WhiteTail Madness]

Am i allowed to pipe in on this?? Even tho im from michigan?

[joe snag]

After I voted--I must change my vcote---POACHING------there is a lot of it,,,everything from the backyard corn pile,to out of season and nights--and the automatic deer feeder with the tree stand 30 yards away-I see alot of these and hear shots in the night---

[millermankt]

Am i allowed to pipe in on this?? Even tho im from michigan?

You just did. 

[upstatehunter]

That is what I do enjoy about these(some) forums. The chance to talk with other hunters about the sport we all love.
DeerReaver, I don't ever take offense of someone who states their opinion, especially about hunting. Unless it is something antis can use as propaganda to sabotage our sport. The guys I was referring to were wardens of the sport and wildlife in general. They shot a doe with bow or muzzle loader, and in most cases always shot a buck. They ate everything they shot and most gave allot away to less fortunate hunters. They were at a point in their hunting careers that they spike or four point that wandered by them wasn't what they wanted to shoot. And like me went a number of years without shooting a buck. I know that without the programs that other states have and the agriculture here in the Adirondacks we won't have the bucks we see on T.V..
I Wouldn't ever think that the restrictions would mean everyone would get a 130-150" buck. But if a few more 4-6 point bucks were allowed to age 1-2 years there may be a few more to have a chance at.
I agree that poaching is one of the worst detriments to the deer herd. Somehow we need to get courts to give offenders the penalties that are in place and maybe add a few more. Case here was a group of three guys at a camp, caught last year with a small buck and one doe, shot in bow season with bait piles. DEC officer went right to them with these guys, found the gut piles, went to the camp and found the deer hanging. I saw they were back this fall, and asked the DEC officer what was up with that?
I thought you lost your license for illegally taking deer for five years, automatic. He said not if the judge was up for reelection, he fined them and slapped their hands. DEC officer stated the state would lose to much revenue if they weren't buying licenses???
So fine them the cost of one for five years plus??? Have heard of some second and third offence guys that pay the fine and continue to hunt. Also the officers are so stretched out when they do find offenders they can't spend the man hours to catch them.
I guess this would be a topic for another post, Great to have the chance to air your opinion and discuss things freely. Thank you all for that, especially our service for defending that right.
Scott

[adkRoy]

I agree with upstate hunter that the fines should be more uniform and more strict.  Especially for the poachers and road hunters. They are the ones that really give hunters a bad name.

They other thing I think DEC does not take into account when they "calculate" the size of the deer herd is how many deer are taken and never reported.  I live in a rural, economically depressed county and I have over heard conversations where guys have shot deer and never reported them so they could go out and shoot more.

[halfrack33]

I've heard the same thing and it really upsets me. I'll explain where i'm coming from. I hunt quite a small area with very very little hunting pressure. There's about a dozen regular does, two regular spikes, and a couple bigger bucks that wander in and out (to my knowledge according to a trail cam i'm constantly moving and im i these woods 4-5 days a week). knowing that there are bigger bucks there, i hold off on the spikes to let them grow knowing that i can possibly harvest a more mature buck. I don't have any expectations of ever getting trophy "tv" bucks here, and don't think that restrictions will automatically mean trophy deer (even though i do indeed watch wayyyyy too many hunting shows) but see no point in shooting a small spike when i can shoot a doe just as big or bigger and do my job to even out the ratio, while leaving some resident "baby" bucks to mate and grow for the following year. I'm sure the people aroud me influence my standpoint too, nearly all the people i know that hunt will only shoot bucks bigger than 4 or 6 points. This does not mean that they or I disrespect the outdoors, herd, or anyone else. If anything, maybe respect the heard a little more. Maybe if i hunted an area i wasn't as passionate, obsessed, and protective of i would shoot small bucks. just my viewpoint, no offence meant

[adkRoy]

This is probably the best discussion we've had on here in a long time.  There is heavy, and I do heavy hunting pressure by me.  I can watch a deer run across and field and hear 2-3  shooting at it at the same time with their semi-auto rifles.  It sounds like machine gun fire. I am amazed that any deer make it through the season. I think part of the deer management problem is the lack of ethics that are more prevalent in hunting.  People not taking their time for a good shot and wounding deer then not finding them.  We have taken many deer with wounds to their back, legs, and even their nose where they were shot.  All it takes is 1 shot so make your first shot count!

[upstatehunter]

I spent one (1)!!! morning in the southern zone out near Oneonta about ten years ago. I was put on a watch at 6am, and as it came daylight the woods came alive like a war zone. I sat huddled at the base of my tree for the next three hours. I did have six deer fly by me running like they had the devil behind them. I was reluctant to shoot as I didn't know where other people were.
We hadpermission to hunt 250 acres next to a large state tract by a reservoir. I met up with the others in our group and said I was heading to the center of the tract, where I sat until taking a sixpointer fighting with a larger buck that went the other way chasing doe. That was the last and only time down south for rifle season. I have bow hunted a few times on a farm in Granville I had permission to, only to have two stands stolen and the trees behind me peppered with bird shot from a hunter after pheasant and partridge. Did shoot a spike last time there. I found more deer dead in one week though in Wisconsin than I have ever around here. When I asked the guy we had permission to hunt his land why that was he said, guys were just shooting deer they saw antlers on and if it wasn't big enough they left it to continue sitting over the bait. Not sure if that was true or not but everyday when we were walking out from our stands the woods would erupt with gun shots. I checked my 50mm scope and I couldn't see my crosshairs. Way to late to be shooting deer knowing clearly what your target was or what was behind it.
I understand the reluctance for antler restrictions, I have a 24 yr old that works for me who just started hunting and took up bow hunting this year as well. He would be most overjoyed with any legal buck. I wouldn't want him to have topass up a deer because it was big enough, but He stated that if that was the law then he would honor it. He got a shot at a spike this fall with the bow but missed, When I explained that was more than most of us have done our first year he was happy to have a chance at a deer even if it didn't work out.
You sound like a very well rounded and grounded young man halfrack, my hat is off to you for letting smaller bucks go, and Adkroy, I respect your shooting any legal deer, where you are getting one must be as tough as it is here with the increased pressure from hunters.
To all that have posted or will, this post is what makes me proud to be a hunter in the US. We all should be proud of ourselves.