Author Topic: Hi-tech equipment  (Read 8172 times)

Offline Bobman

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Shoot him now, shoot him now!!!
Hi-tech equipment
« on: Sep 17, 2004, 09:16:24 AM »
I may be stirring up a hornet's nest with this post but hey we need some more lively discussion  ;D!

I was watching the outdoor channel the other day and noticed all the new gadgets on every show, fishing or hunting.  Well it got me thinking, are we quickly approaching the point where hunting is nothing more than killing and fishing becomes catching?  What's happening to learning woodcraft, reading the water, knowing the environment that we are working in?  The first show I saw was a hunting show (Mossy Oak i think) where they were bow hunting whitetails in Kansas.  Well, the show the guy in his tree stand with his compound bow, big stabilizer bar, limb savers, string dampers, arrows with expanding broadheads and release.  He's dressed in his hi-tech fabric, scent blocking camo outfit as well as cover scents. He's got his synthetic antlers for rattling, grunt and bleat calls and his buffer bottle to check wind direction.  A big buck comes by and he breaks out his laser range finder to determine the exact range before he draws and sets the right sight pin on the deer, presses the button on his release and bingo!

Then I was watching a fishing show and the guy is cruising around the lake in his boat with his GPS guiding him to his spot where is fish finder's LCD display is marking a bunch of large fish.  He drops his AquaView down to take a look before he even throws in a line.  Then he talks about which super line he is using with his super sensitive rod.  Then he starts casting a crank with the holographic finish.  Almost all the shows now seem to be more about the new gadgets and how to use them than they are about the outdoors and hunting and fishing.

Anyway, my point is has technology and the desire for trophy status over taken the hunting and fishing?  When I started hunting bow and muzzleloader seasons were known as primitive arms seasons.  These days I often feel I'm the one using the primitive arms because I hunt with an old Ithica 16 guage shotgun for deer and small game!  They don't even call it muzzleloader season much anymore because most people are using the new inline blackpowder rifles that are breach loaders and use pre-formed powder pellets with sealed percussion caps and rifled bullets.  These are really nothing more than single shot modern rifles.  And how many people in the woods or on the streams can read a compass or a map anymore?  If they are in the woods and they batteries in the GPS and cell phone dies, then what!  After seeing posts here, on MFF and Ice Shanty, a lot of us seem to be more caught up in the technology than the sport.  Don't get me wrong, I like to try new gear that may help improve my chances for success but there has to be a line drawn somewhere to keep the integrity in the sport. 

Let's hear what you guys think, I'm sure I'll probably get some flack from you bow and blackpowder people  ;D!
Their comin' right for us!

Offline RGFIXIT

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #1 on: Sep 17, 2004, 06:47:23 PM »
Bobman,
You'll get no flack from this sportsman. I take a good deal of pride in my abilities to read the woods and waters without the GPS, without the Vex etc.

On the other hand...
I'll admit to using a compound bow of an advanced generation. It definitely gives me a better opportunity to harvest  a deer with the amount of time I have to practice. I've only wounded and lost a couple in many years of bow hunting.

There's a depth finder on my boat to locate structure...it's a big help.

That's about where I draw the line.

I have friends that buy the latest and greatest each season. I believe you're right that they're losing  their instinct and relying on the high tech to cover their shortcomings as woodsmen.

In short there's room for both...there I go....middle of the road again. I guess I'm just a moderate man.

RG

Offline Fat Boy

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Whack 'em and stack 'em!
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #2 on: Sep 17, 2004, 11:11:02 PM »
Bobman, I hear ya.  But, like anything else, technology isn't always a bad thing.  But the name of the game in the DNR point of view is harvest, not how (usually).  And, if something enables a hunter to be more accurate, then that is a good thing.  I'd rather see a guy use a range finder that isn't good judging distances and put a good shot on a deer than wounding deer with an arrow. 

These technical tools are just tools like anything else.  The guys that catch fish still have to know how to catch fish.  And the guys that get the big buck still have to know how to do that.  Technology can't replace that ability.  And, having tools to do the job today, even though more advanced, equates to new technology invented when you started hunting compared to 30 years before that.  Firearms are a good example.  If it was only about the woods, etc., and about using primative weapons, then what you are talking about IMO is traditional archery.  Technology includes guns.  I use some of this stuff as my wallet allows, but the stuff doesn't do the thinking for me.  For example, I use a flasher for icefishing and I'm good at it.  I learned to fish without it, so I can catch plenty of fish if I leave it home.  All it does is enable me to eliminate dead water and inactive fish and allow me to maximize my limited amount of fishing time.   I also don't need a $20K bass boat to catch bass.  I can wade of fish from shore and do just fine.  And, when I enter tournaments as a non boater, I do just fine.  It's not the boat that catches fish, it's the angler.  You can't get much more technology packed into a boat like those babies...

OK, not trying to make enemies here.  I support hunting and trapping, period, no matter how you do it as long as it's legal in your state/province.  If someone wants to spend $600 on a piece of equipment, like a GPS, then more power to him. 

Lastly, in-line black powder rifles are still muzzleloading (at least all of the ones that I've seen including the new Thompson Center ones).  Some convert to breech loading rifles, but not for black powder.  Now, they are incredibly accurate and certainly much more efficient when compared to a Kentucky long rifle, I'll give you that.  It's all in what you like to do, isn't it?
-Kevin Wilson

"Rabbit, rabbit...5 O'clock...It's comin' right for us!"  http://fatboysoutdoors.blogspot.com/

Offline Bobman

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Shoot him now, shoot him now!!!
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #3 on: Sep 18, 2004, 01:39:48 PM »
FB - I don't really have a problem with people using technology as a tool, my problem is the people that use it to replace developing the basic skills we should all have as outdoors people.  If you need a lazer range finder to judge distance then maybe you should practise judging distances in the woods instead of finding a product that may mask your shortcomings.  What happens if that person using the range finder loses it or it breaks, now they have natural skill to fall back on and they are making themselves worse hunters than before.  Same with the GPS, if that's the only way you have to get around and it dies.....

When I started fishing in a boat on Lake Erie, we didn't have any kind of depth finders and that's a big lake.  You used a nav map and compass or went to spots that were marked with land based visual references.  Otherwise you just drifted along and if you found a spot with fish you tried to mark it on the map or use visual landmarks.  When we finally got an early Hummingbird flasher we could find the little humps and holes much easier, but if it wasn't working we could still find good places to fish by using on previous knowledge.

The issue I take with the blackpowder rifles is that in NY there is a seperate blackpowder season because the idea was that a muzzleloader was more primitive than a modern rifle or shotgun so they could hunt in peace, get closer to the als, etc. similar to bow hunting.  That was more true when people were using the traditional blackpowder rifles with loose powder, percussion caps or flints, open sights, roundball ammo, etc.  You had a better chance for misfires or bad shots if you didn't load the rifle properly or didn't take proper care of your gear.  That was the lure of traditional hunting methods.  The new rifles are just that;single shot,scoped (in many cases) modern rifles so they shouldn't be given a seperate season.  Also, in my area of NY you can't hunt with a modern rifle only shotgun, but I can hunt there with any kind of blackpowder rifle.

I've been considering taking up bow hunting and blackpowder hunting I'm looking into getting either a recurve bow or a long bow and a flintlock Kentucky rifle in .50 cal.  I also will probably spend at least a year with each to bring my skill level up to what I feel is acceptable before I even get bow or blackpowder hunting liscenses.  I just feel the seperate seasons are fine if you're talking about "traditional/primitive" type hunting and you're limited to thatkind of equipment.  If you want to use modern equipment hunt during the regular season like everyone else.

This argument might be best in another thread because it can get lengthy, the original point I wanted to bring up is that I worry about people depending on modern gadgets with nothing top back them up if their gadget fails.  To me that makes for some very dangerous situations in the outdoors for the individuals as well as those around them.
Their comin' right for us!

Offline Fat Boy

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Whack 'em and stack 'em!
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #4 on: Sep 18, 2004, 08:02:11 PM »
Bobman, good points.  I agree.  Learn to hunt and fish first, learning that is the ticket to catching a lot.  I know exactly what you mean though, like in ice fishing, I see some guys out there with sonar and cameras and not catching fish.  They rely on their toys too much, and wind up watching the "TV" and missing a strike because they weren't paying attention to their rod or line.  Or, they simply don't think like a critter to catch a critter and rely on their TV too much.  I use that equipment, but I also use it to supplement the experience that I've gained from that.

So, in summary, I hear ya Bud!
-Kevin Wilson

"Rabbit, rabbit...5 O'clock...It's comin' right for us!"  http://fatboysoutdoors.blogspot.com/

Offline Bear

  • Nubbie
  • *
  • Posts: 19
  • Killed this buck with my bare hands
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #5 on: Sep 18, 2004, 08:18:32 PM »
All of your points are fine and good, but it is because of our technology that we are the most advanced race on planet earth. If it were up to more extremests in this way of thinking, we would still be hunting with rocks and fishing with spears.
Watch out for the Bear. I'm hunting YOU!!!!

Offline devil-man

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #6 on: Sep 20, 2004, 10:25:09 AM »
Bobman- I think you got it right when you said there has to be a line drawn somewhere. I can envision heat seeking arrows in the future... Or do they already exist?
I confess to using GPS, for navigation. But I also have a topo map and compass in my pack. It all comes down to what each individual is comfortable with. A map isn't going to help you find a certain tree in the dark. I can mark it two weeks before turkey season and walk there at 5AM in pitch blackness, and I have no qualms about that.  ;)
It's easier to escape from a chain gang than a food chain...

Offline Fat Boy

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Whack 'em and stack 'em!
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #7 on: Sep 21, 2004, 04:59:03 PM »
Yes Cider, I agree with you. 

There was a time when I was the only one on the ice with a flasher.  Let me tell you that before that I caught plenty of fish, but when I incorporated using the flasher, unless there was a real hot bite, I was the only one catching fish most of the time.  There was a guy that I now fish with that I met on the ice once and he and his daughter hadn't caught a fish all day.  They were leaving so I asked if I could drop my Zercom into the hole and take a peek to see if there were fish there or not.  I marked fish, and I dropped my lure down there and caught that fish immediately.  I proceeded to catch a few more before he had to leave.  He purchased a flasher the next year.  He was not a rookie either, he is a guide now (specializing in river smallmouth fishing), but still, this is a guy who knows how to fish first.  Technology doesn't make the sportsman at all.  But, it can help you if you're a sportsmen to become better at what you like to do, IF YOU WANT TO or can afford to (sorry, not yelling, just emphasizing).  Take someone that knows how to catch fish on the ice that doesn't have a flasher and he'll be better when he figures out how to use it. 

Like I said earlier, there are guys out there with flashers and fancy bass boats that can't catch fish.  There are guys out there without that equipment that can catch fish.  And, there are also guys out there with that equipment that can catch fish and also catch more fish.

There are two factors to having technology help you:
1)  you have to learn how to use the equipment and make yourself better
2)  you have to make the financial investment in the right equipment for what you like to do to achieve whatever goal that you set out to do.  This can be painful and technology these days is not cheap.


Like anything else, it all depends on what you want to do and what makes you happy when you're outdoors.  Hunting is awesome, the technology does make things a bit easier, but it all is what you want to get out of it.  If you're up for the challenge in deer hunting, try traditional archery, make your own wooden arrows and broadheads out of stone, and your own hunting clothing.

If you want more challenge but not that much, then there is modern day archery.  Still want a challenge but easier than bowhunting is the blackpowder...on up the line. 

We all have choices and can have fun in this sport given our choices.  Some of us are more proficient than others at what ever type of thing that we do (and vice versa), others could care less about the amount or quality of game that they bag, for them, the experience of getting outdoors is simply enough.  But, we all have one thing in common here:  We hunt.

OK, dag. Gotta stop rambling and head home and cook dinner!  L8r fellas!!!
-Kevin Wilson

"Rabbit, rabbit...5 O'clock...It's comin' right for us!"  http://fatboysoutdoors.blogspot.com/

Offline Phoenix

  • Spiked
  • *
  • Posts: 20
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #8 on: Sep 22, 2004, 09:41:57 AM »
I don't have any problem with technology used in the field as long as:

a) the rules and regulations are able to keep up with said technology to adequately protect the resource.

b) it doesn't interfere excessively with other peoples ability to enjoy the outdoors on a more basic level.


Offline Bobman

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
  • Shoot him now, shoot him now!!!
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #9 on: Sep 22, 2004, 12:08:02 PM »
Cider - I hadn't really thought about the TV shows like that but yeah you're right, they have sponsors with products to sell and don't really care about the actual hunting or fishing as much.  I guess I'm just looking for outdoor shows like the ones that I grew up watching.  My two favorites were "Teh Fishing Hole" with Gerry McGuiness (I think that's his name) and a Canadian show with Red Fisher.  Those shows were about the sport not the gear.  With 2 outdoor channels on my satellite dish and Saturday shows on ESPN and local channels, I really don't watch all that many. 

I guess when it comes to technology I'm just more of a minimalist than most.  I prefer to rely on my outdoor abilities (I've spent most of my time outdoors since I was old enough to follow my Dad).  I don't buy a lot of new stuff every year for fishing or hunting and what I buy isn't the top of the line.  I've got a couple of plain old camo hooded sweat shirts and a set of army surplus BDU's in green camo, no scent blocker clothes or quiet fleece.  I usually go to my deer stand (permanently built into a tree) in my orange suit with the masking scent sprayed on and deer pee on my boots.  So I guess I'm not much into new gear.  In fact of my 6 guns, I've only bought one the rest are all hand me downs or inherited.  I use most of them at some point in the year and shoot just as well with any.  The only thing I spend more money on is my boots.  I've tried the cheap ones and the mid-range but nothing brings down a hunt more that bad boots.

I also don't mind if I'm out fishing or hunting and don't get anything.  To me it's just about being out there and the harvest is secondary.  Don't get me wrong I love getting fish or game and eating it, but to me everything I get is a trophy, whether it's a doe or spike buck or 6" sunfish or 10lb carp.  I've hunted with people that almost get depressed if they don't get a nice buck and certainly aren't happy for the guy hunting with them that might get the buck they were looking for.  I've had days where after opening morning of deer hunting I've spent the rest of my hunting day helping friends and family drag deer out of the woods.

I'm glad to hear that you guys like to use the new technologies as another tool and not a crutch to cover lack of skills.  You guys are the type of people I would be happy to hunt and fish with!  Of course you guys with all your new fangled gear would probably out fish and out hunt me  ;D!
Their comin' right for us!

Offline Fat Boy

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 225
  • Whack 'em and stack 'em!
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #10 on: Sep 22, 2004, 09:45:14 PM »
I've tried the cheap ones and the mid-range but nothing brings down a hunt more that bad boots.

Ain't that the truth!

One thing though.  I bought MT050 raingear from Cabelas a few years back because I needed good Goretex rain gear.  I think that is important also especially if you have to get out in foul weather like me because it may be the last time you get to hunt for a while.  I got soaked to the bone one winter when my old raingear didn't protect me from 5" of cold rain one opening day of gun season several years ago.  So anyway, after that, for a few dollars more, I got the MT050 Goretex rain gear with the Scent-Lok lining.  The rain gear was only slightly more expensive than the other Goretex models that I looked at, and I couldn't afford both rain gear and a Scent-Lok suit. 

Anyway, in addition to getting good rain gear, I got a chance to try out the new technology.  I've always been anal about scent awareness.  I wash my hunting clothes with scent free soap, don't my outer layer on until I get to my hunting spot away from the exhaust of vehicles, take a shower using scent free soap and shampoo, use scent free deodorant, also brush my teeth with baking soda, don't chew tobacco or smoke cigarettes, use scent elimination spray on my equipment and boots, and always set up my hunt so that the wind is in my favor.  Since doing that, I have had far more chances at deer and put more meat in the freezer.  Then came Scent-Lok.  I still do all the other stuff above, but use this product too.  What I found out was that I began to see far more deer coming from down wind of me than ever before without winding me.  In fact, I have yet to have any deer bust me while using this product and while still being always scent concious and careful.  I have been busted by them due to movement of some kind, but that's a different issue.  I really believe that before I used it, deer just didn't come my way from downwind hardly ever and I never noticed probably because the deer knew that I was a threat before I ever saw them.  Anyway, the scent free clothing is worth the investment if you plan on buying that kind of clothing anyway.  I now have the same concept in three different brands for boots, clothing and gloves.  Some of the stuff I picked up on sale and didn't pay any more for it when compared to regular prices on the clothing without it.  Still, it comes back to what Bobman says...you have to know how to hunt and you have to know your quarry.  Preparation is the key to success in deer hunting and scent control of some sort is at the top of the list.  If you didn't buy any special clothing, simply following the other things that I've mentioned above will bring many more deer to you.  The more deer that you see, the better chance you have for a trophy.  If you can spring for the scent blocking clothing, then go for it, it's worth the money.  All of the brands are good too, Scent Blocker, Scent-Lok, makes no difference.  Again, if you can't afford the clothing, do all of the above and hunt into the wind.  People killed many a deer doing that way before scent blocking clothing appeared on the market!
-Kevin Wilson

"Rabbit, rabbit...5 O'clock...It's comin' right for us!"  http://fatboysoutdoors.blogspot.com/

Offline RGFIXIT

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #11 on: Sep 23, 2004, 05:01:33 AM »
Bobman,
Minimalist...that's the word for it.  Some of us still go into the woods and on the waters with just whats necessary and enjoy being unencumbered by vests full of high tech solutions.

Let's face it..we do love our STUFF! We're generally obsessed with it and the manufacturers know it. Not a bad thing either...we're good for the economy!

I have no less than 50 game calls...squirrel, crow, preditor, deer, turkey, phesant (good thing I don't hunt waterfowl) and I take 1 or 2 afield for the game I'm hunting. No electronics...That's cheating in my book. Learn to use a call...it's part hunting.

I haven't found a need for a GPS. There is and always will be a compass (and topo map for unfamiliar places) in my pack and on my boat. I learned to use a compass and read a topo map in my youth when I did a lot of backpacking in remote areas. We taught orienteering to young hunters as a part of their Hunter Education Training...it wasn't a part of the course...we felt it was necessary. Basic outdoor skills! OOPS! your batteries are dead...compass still works ;D

Do I take my cell phone with me....yes....my wife demands it.

RG








Offline devil-man

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #12 on: Sep 23, 2004, 07:39:05 AM »
An extra set of AA baterries don't take up much space, RG.
Your cell phone could die or be out of range just as easily.
I agree that outdoor skills are a necessity (such as orienteering), and pride my self on woodsmanship. But my best friend gave me the killer Magellan SporTrak Topo GPS for my b-day last year and I'd be stupid not to use it. It's just too damn cool!  8)
« Last Edit: Sep 23, 2004, 08:56:28 AM by devil-man »
It's easier to escape from a chain gang than a food chain...

Offline RGFIXIT

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 126
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #13 on: Sep 23, 2004, 07:59:47 AM »
Devil-man,
Right you are ;D

That's a good friend...just don't let him download your secret spots ;)
Bob

Offline devil-man

  • 6 Pointer
  • ***
  • Posts: 246
Re: Hi-tech equipment
« Reply #14 on: Sep 23, 2004, 08:47:44 AM »
No worries- it only came with one USB cable  ;D
It's easier to escape from a chain gang than a food chain...

 


SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal