MyHuntingForum.com
MHF US Northeast => Hunting Maine => Topic started by: castnblast on Dec 03, 2009, 02:14:01 PM
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Hey all, been lurking for a while and joined up the other day. Lots of great conversations going on here!
Did anyone else out there have a horrible deer season like I did? I hunted for several solid days in the Corinna area the Mercer area and around home in the Berwicks. Not only did I not even see a deer, I saw very little sign. I think a combination of the last couple of winters and the warm weather made for bad hunting. I did have my 11 year old twin boys with me for a few of those days so there is somewhat of an excuse. Don't get me wrong, I love that they love to hunt and I love having them with but it is hard hunting with kids. I am just discouraged as hell this year >:(
Heres to looking forward to 2010 and hopefully a mild winter better luck in the future.
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It was tough this year for sure. I didn't many deer either. Hopefully next year is a heck of a lot better!
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First off, welcome to the site! Secondly, hang in there. This is why they call it hunting not killing. For me, every trip into the woods is a learning experince whether I saw something or not.
Look on the bright side, maybe one of your buddies will offer to split a deer with you or something? Plus, I know a guy who has a freezer full of moose meat ;)
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Bad season for me, not because I didnt get one but by the lack of sign, the deer just arent there....sad really.....Now lets go kill some coyotes ;D ;D
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St. Croix, you are wise beyond your years.
I did come across several hare this year. Time to get after em I guess.
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Castnblast; I'm new here too, welcome. Have been hunting 29 seasons, the last two being the toughest. I did find deer in central Maine the first two weeks, passed on two small does at different times with permit in the pocket. Held out for 6 day hunt out of camp in western Maine mountains for the last week going for the heavy buck and hunting with my 26 year old son and best friend. My son walked up on three does and a decent 8 pointer bedded in the last hour of the last day, no shot presented on the buck. Was with him and put him on the spot, started him hunting with me at age 11. My son has taken two fine bucks, an 8 and 7 pointer out of that camp while hunting with me, I was fortunate enough to take a 6 point 205 lb wallhanger out of that same camp while hunting alone, the big buck came in the first year, 10 years ago, my son's deer came spread out three years after the first, then three years again later. So needless to say we keep going back to camp for that last week together. The time spent hunting together as father and son is priceless, deer or no deer. Hunting northern Maine Bucks is hard, hard work. Trust me, when you are in your mid fifties, and you are hunting with your son who is in his mid twenties the tables will turn, that little boy who grows up into a man with the hunting passion you instilled will give you the strength and the youth in your heart to give it your best and believe me the best is yet to come. I'll leave you with a quote that is not mine, I read it somewhere and can't remember where, "Give me a topo map, a compass and two weeks to hunt deer and I guarantee you I'll kill two weeks!" ;D
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the winters dont have as much effect on deer as you may think its all in the loss of habitat northern canada boasts the largest whitetail population in north america and our winters are tropical compared to there so i cant believe deep snow has as much affect on deer as loss of habitat just my .02
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the winters dont have as much effect on deer as you may think its all in the loss of habitat northern canada boasts the largest whitetail population in north america and our winters are tropical compared to there so i cant believe deep snow has as much affect on deer as loss of habitat just my .02
I have to disagree with you there..... The deep snow slows down the deer and makes it alot easier for the coyotes to catch them. Welcome castnblast
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the winters don't have as much effect on deer as you may think its all in the loss of habitat northern Canada boasts the largest whitetail population in north America and our winters are tropical compared to there so i cant believe deep snow has as much affect on deer as loss of habitat just my .02
Not a biologist but it's pretty hard to believe northern Canada has the largest whitetail population in north America. I don't think northern canada even has whitetail's. I have seen winter yards while hunting bobcat that the deer could not travel due to the snow depth. Everything was broused down to bare wood including eating the bark off the tree's like a porcipine. There has been no change in habitat where i hunt in maine for 5 years and there are a lot less deer there. I think last two winters of 4' of crusted up snow that the predators can run on and deer can't didn't help.
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Oh- hey castnblast Welcome aboard.
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I don't think its far to blame just the deep snow the last two winters as to the low deer numbers. The coyotes have also played a huge part in the killings. I don't think the turkeys and high bear numbers have helped either. Unfortunetly I don't think the hunting will turn around for a few years, I saw a lot of small small deer this season but another hard winter will kill many of them off again especailly with coyotes. SO GET OUT THERE AND KILL SOME YOTES
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While loss of deer yards in Maine is a major player (loss of habitat) the state has publicly stated that the past two winters were very hard on the deer in northern Maine. They have an index and if the number goes over a certain amount we start having winter kill. As for the Coyotes, a large winter kill is helpful to the coyotes who take advantage of the food and pup in much better condition than would ordinarily be the case, thus larger, healthier pups......My two cents, now lets go kill some coyotes ;D
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http://morningsentinel.mainetoday.com/view/columns/7165351.html
This article by George Smith pretty much sums it up. Even in central Maine it is obvious that the herd is hurting.
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the winters dont have as much effect on deer as you may think its all in the loss of habitat northern canada boasts the largest whitetail population in north america and our winters are tropical compared to there so i cant believe deep snow has as much affect on deer as loss of habitat just my .02
Got to say you're way off the mark here. Snow depths and types of snow are very critical to the survivability rate of deer. The last two winters have had early snow, frequent storms and a large amount of snow cover which results in sever winter kill. Of course there are many other factors such as predation that compounds the problem. As far as Canada having large deer numbers, they have suffered as well. I believe Ontario is reporting something like 40% winter kill from last year. It will be many years before you see the population here in Maine rebound.
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the winters dont have as much effect on deer as you may think its all in the loss of habitat northern canada boasts the largest whitetail population in north america and our winters are tropical compared to there so i cant believe deep snow has as much affect on deer as loss of habitat just my .02
Got the new Maine Sportsman huh.
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Time to go to at least 3 points on each side, and no doe permits. Just for 2-3 years. I bet the recovery will be amazing.
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I have a hard time beleiving that anyplace that routinely has 4+ feet of snow on the ground for extended periods during the winter would have much of a whitetail population. It is not just the snow as some of you say. The deep snow in combination with coyote predation is the real killer. Deep snow alone should not kill a healthy mature deer. That is unless it is so deep they need a snorkel to get around.
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Winter snow depth and type of snow have a huge impact on deer. Early snow combined with deep snow, crusted snow, and when the winter lasts long into March or April it is devastating to the herd. Add to that lack of suitable wintering habitat and a healthy and abundant coyote population and you got the "perfect storm" so to speak. And it's not just northern Maine it's happening here in Southern Maine too. There is good article in the December issue of Deer and Deer Hunting magazine by John Ozoga about how the rut is affected by early snows and he goes into detail how that effects things for years out beyond that.
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great year here filled my frezer full of venison
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Got the new Maine Sportsman huh.
;D
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I have been hearing preliminary reports of less than 100 deer tagged in Aroostook County. I know that 19 were tagged in New Sweden as of Saturday afternoon (rifle season). Many years they tag double that on Youth Day.
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I have been hearing preliminary reports of less than 100 deer tagged in Aroostook County. I know that 19 were tagged in New Sweden as of Saturday afternoon (rifle season). Many years they tag double that on Youth Day.
Last number I had from Ben's in PI was about 25 headed into the last few days.
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I have been hearing preliminary reports of less than 100 deer tagged in Aroostook County. I know that 19 were tagged in New Sweden as of Saturday afternoon (rifle season). Many years they tag double that on Youth Day.
Here is a good place to look at different year harvestshttp://www.maine.gov/ifw/hunting_trapping/hunting/harvest.htm (http://www.maine.gov/ifw/hunting_trapping/hunting/harvest.htm)
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Time to go to at least 3 points on each side, and no doe permits. Just for 2-3 years. I bet the recovery will be amazing.
What!!!? So what are we supposed to do, ask the the deer to hold still while we count the points on both sides? Then after confirmation of 3 points on both sides, let them run and then shoot? Not a solution, just leads to more untagged deer that are killed, Kind of leads me to believe that you have not been hunting in Maine as a resident for very long. The deer are there, you must hunt harder, with more conviction and have a lot more options with years of scouting, experience and know how. Worst case scenario is to eliminate the taking of does for a limited number of seasons and see what happens. Have hunted central Maine for 29 seasons, in that time have seen up and down swings in the deer population relating to severe winters and coyote predation. The whitetail deer is a resiliant survivor, has excellent habitat in Maine and will rebound from a couple of bad winters, just my $.02 cents. I love to hunt and have never considered any season that I hunted without filling a tag as a failure, I always learn the most from those seasons when I don't tag out as it always seems to lead to succes from the knowledge gained in a successive season.
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What!!!? So what are we supposed to do, ask the the deer to hold still while we count the points on both sides? Then after confirmation of 3 points on both sides, let them run and then shoot? Not a solution, just leads to more untagged deer that are killed, Kind of leads me to believe that you have not been hunting in Maine as a resident for very long. The deer are there, you must hunt harder, with more conviction and have a lot more options with years of scouting, experience and know how. Worst case scenario is to eliminate the taking of does for a limited number of seasons and see what happens. Have hunted central Maine for 29 seasons, in that time have seen up and down swings in the deer population relating to severe winters and coyote predation. The whitetail deer is a resiliant survivor, has excellent habitat in Maine and will rebound from a couple of bad winters, just my $.02 cents. I love to hunt and have never considered any season that I hunted without filling a tag as a failure, I always learn the most from those seasons when I don't tag out as it always seems to lead to succes from the knowledge gained in a successive season.
As a matter of fact, I have been hunting in Maine for 30 years and have been very succesful. I just have been seeing trends both up and down in those 30 years. Again, I think the real culprit is habitat loss, but I also beleive that tighter restrictions for a few years would be beneficial. And yes , if you hunt effectively you can get a good look and evaluate a deer in a short time. I understand sucess rates will go way down for a few years, but the long term benefit will be enormous. I agree with you on one point though. The harvest is a small part of the hunt. Any time in the woods and at camp with your family and friends is a sucess.
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Ok. I don't live in Maine or hunt Maine, but in Vermont where wunters have been pretty nasty for a couple years. Two years ago we started on a wood lot for the winter and 26 deer decided to stay and winter there and feed on the tops and brush that we produced. This was not a deer yard but the deer had it easier than in most yards. Regardless in Febuary we got a bad crust and by the time spring came I counted 11 of the 26 deer had died from just plain running out of the stamina I would say because most were the young deer from the spring before. Also I'm sure that the ones that survived were the strong making for a stronger herd. This happened through most of the Northeast not just on that one lot. The deer came back stronger than ever now with many heavy deer taken in the area this year.
As a matter of fact, I have been hunting in Maine for 30 years and have been very succesful. I just have been seeing trends both up and down in those 30 years. Again, I think the real culprit is habitat loss, but I also beleive that tighter restrictions for a few years would be beneficial. And yes , if you hunt effectively you can get a good look and evaluate a deer in a short time. I understand sucess rates will go way down for a few years, but the long term benefit will be enormous. I agree with you on one point though. The harvest is a small part of the hunt. Any time in the woods and at camp with your family and friends is a sucess.
As for habitat loss! Anywhere I have been in main has ideal habitat for deer. With lots of logging this is the best thing you can do for the deer because it provides lots of young growth which amounts to superb browse and cover. The deer are there. My guess would be that You are not seeing the deer because of all the wild feed in the mountains this year and you just haven't gotten into the exact area the deer are living and feeding. A deer doesn't have to travel to far for food this year.
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Im not so sure about the food? I saw little to no beechnuts across the state this year and acorns are only found in the southern portion of the state, the northern part had very little food this year apples did all right but they are only in a few select areas
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Mountain ash did good in the mountains with all the rain early in the year.
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Hello there
I've been reading this site for a while now and love it. I'm from New Portland and do a lot of hunting around this area as well as the forks area. I can't say that I would be opposed to a 3 point on one side tag or even the shutting down of the hunting for a year or two in certain zones. With that said, in case some are wondering, I absolutely love to hunt and fish and love everything about the outdoors, but if its done to improve the deer herd for years to come and for our children, I'm even more for it. If not shut down the season in Certain zones, than I think the state should at least give some incentives on coyote hunting. There should be more encouragement on killing as many as possible. I'm not trying to start an argument but just expressing my opinion
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Hello there
I've been reading this site for a while now and love it. I'm from New Portland and do a lot of hunting around this area as well as the forks area. I can't say that I would be opposed to a 3 point on one side tag or even the shutting down of the hunting for a year or two in certain zones. With that said, in case some are wondering, I absolutely love to hunt and fish and love everything about the outdoors, but if its done to improve the deer herd for years to come and for our children, I'm even more for it. If not shut down the season in Certain zones, than I think the state should at least give some incentives on coyote hunting. There should be more encouragement on killing as many as possible. I'm not trying to start an argument but just expressing my opinion
Welcome aboard there. Glad to see you joined up. 8) 8) A few more people will respond I'm thinking. ;D ;D
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yeah, i figured there would be a few Will
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;D ;D ;D Always a few comments floating around here. ;D ;D
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Boy, I gotta say, I didn't figure this post would spark up this much dialogue.
I have hunted in the state since I was a young boy. I remember my grandfather handing me a double barrel shotgun and a couple slugs when I was just barely strong enough to lug it around, never mind fire it! I have had years where I have seen deer in the double digits and years (like this one) where I have seen nothing. I have been skunked many times during deer season. As some of you have said. It doesn't matter to me if I shoot a deer or not. I love just getting out there. I love going to camp for a week. I love the fact that my boys now want to continue the hunting traditions that my family started a long time ago. I don't worry that the hunting was bad this year or that maybe it won't be so good next year. It will come back eventually. I just enjoy the time that I have out there while I can, there will come a day when I may not have that.
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Yes, This Newbe struck it on the head fer sure.....Castnblast, just my thoughts also. Been out the couple days W/ my 16 y/o daughter hunting, w/this new snow on the ground & seeing fresh tracks has kept her going, even if she doesn't get one she is having fun in the woods!
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Hunting in New England is Hard. And anyone that has never done it and considerdes themselves a trophy hunter should give it a whurl. Deer densities are low, winters are tough and predidation is high. Deer that are located in massive stands of timber and mountains have learned to adapt to the struggles they face and become virtually nocturnal or difficult to locate even during the rut. I've had many years in mass wiht promising sign and many trail cam pictures from great deer that were between dusk and dawn to never even see so much as a flag in a whole season. On the contrary i have been living in MD for the past 2 yrs and the deer population is out of control. In the last 10 years sub burban areas that used to be wildnerness have turned in to small pockets of land that lay within nutrient rich farm land producing some incredible animals. I've seen more deer in the past two years here then i have 10 years of hunting the berkshires of MA. However, it takes away from the sport. I would much rather harvest a spike or doe in MA or NH where i hunt then shoot a 120" 8pt in MD. Becuase it is too common place. I would rather hunt in New england put in the time and effort in, spend as much time on stand as possible and kill one deer then sit in my climber here and watch multiple 60lb does feed in front of my stand. Moral of my long rant is when hunitng in New England it takes a lot of time and patient to connect but when you finally do hook up with one it is a more the rewarding trophy.
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Hunting in New England is Hard. And anyone that has never done it and considerdes themselves a trophy hunter should give it a whurl. Deer densities are low, winters are tough and predidation is high. Deer that are located in massive stands of timber and mountains have learned to adapt to the struggles they face and become virtually nocturnal or difficult to locate even during the rut. I've had many years in mass wiht promising sign and many trail cam pictures from great deer that were between dusk and dawn to never even see so much as a flag in a whole season. On the contrary i have been living in MD for the past 2 yrs and the deer population is out of control. In the last 10 years sub burban areas that used to be wildnerness have turned in to small pockets of land that lay within nutrient rich farm land producing some incredible animals. I've seen more deer in the past two years here then i have 10 years of hunting the berkshires of MA. However, it takes away from the sport. I would much rather harvest a spike or doe in MA or NH where i hunt then shoot a 120" 8pt in MD. Becuase it is too common place. I would rather hunt in New england put in the time and effort in, spend as much time on stand as possible and kill one deer then sit in my climber here and watch multiple 60lb does feed in front of my stand. Moral of my long rant is when hunitng in New England it takes a lot of time and patient to connect but when you finally do hook up with one it is a more the rewarding trophy.
I Love all aspects of the "Hunt" Being at deer camp,etc.I have gone several years between harvest in the north country. It's about the time spent as stated above. But a bunch of 60# doe's sounds like she would be all backstraps and i would love to shoot a pile of em. ;D ;D ;D I get just as excited for a skipper as i do a Buckasarus!
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Got this link in an email from IF&W today.
http://inlandtracks.wordpress.com/2009/12/08/dear-deer-hunters-some-facts-about-maines-whitetail-deer-population/
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Magoo42; Let me say first and foremost that I apologize and stand corrected. I tip my hat to you sir for 30 seasons in the Maine woods hunting the elusive whitetail deer, that in and of itself speaks volumes of your dedication to this sport. Actually we agree on the most important issues by far in reading your posts and responses. My comments regarding the up and down swings in the deer herd/population were more specifically directed at the situation in Central and Southern Maine and after two severe winters in a row, yes I am concerned but feel the herd is strong enough to make a reletively quick recovery especially given the chance to with more moderate winter conditions in the next five years or so. The situation in Northern Maine is quite a different matter, companies like Great Northern in the big woods north of Moosehead Lake back in the mid 80's to mid 90's clearcut vast woodlands with no regard to protecting the deers wintering yards, this practice continued unabated throughout Northern Maine during this time frame, it's effect on the big woods deer population was not at first apparent, over time we now see the devastating results. In other areas of northern Maine such as the Western Maine Mountains, forest cutting operations were conducted in a much more reasonable practice, smaller cuttings, leaving tree growth particularly along natural brooks, wetlands and traditional deer wintering grounds. Having hunted in the Western Maine Mountains for trophy class bucks only for the last ten years my experience has been that the standard issue buck is an
8 pointer field dressing 165lbs, when you hunt as hard as it takes in this region that is a trophy buck in my experience, you always have the opportunity of taking one well in excess of 200lbs. I have seen numerous spikehorns and 4 pointers tagged in Oquossoc that field dressed over 200 lbs. These nothern Maine bucks take extreme hard work to harvest in extremely bad years as well as in very good years, from my personal experience a 3 point minimum per side while hunting northern Maine bucks is too extreme of a regulation and would rather see that type of restriction in southern to central Maine for a very short term, like maybe two years. Yes I agree with you as I am a very slow staulk hunter and stand hunter so picking out a deer for minimum 3 points per side is no problem for me. I passed on four small does and a forkhorn in the past two years with doe permit in the pocket, holding out for the big buck hunt out of camp in western Maine mountains during the last week. So I feel that is being responsible and having taken a nice buck over 200lbs I no longer feel the need to shoot a legal deer just for bragging rights, those days are in the past. ;) 8)
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I'm not from your great state, and I mean great, the bucks I've seen on here from Maine are healthy trophies. I am just wondering if deer are transition area animals, why wouldn't clear cut areas do well for them. They do in areas of Canada that clear cut. The new growth is just what they need to eat and they like being on the edge of areas they can see well in. Areas in the south also clear cut and then burn to expedite the new growth. They have deer populations we only dream about. Yes they don't have the extreme weather we do but, they harvest alot of doe in areas and keep ratios in check. I'm all for logging of any kind, as here in NY where I am they don't allow it at all, and if you really want a discouraging season try hunting a forever wild area in the adirondacks!!
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I'm not from your great state, and I mean great, the bucks I've seen on here from Maine are healthy trophies. I am just wondering if deer are transition area animals, why wouldn't clear cut areas do well for them. They do in areas of Canada that clear cut. The new growth is just what they need to eat and they like being on the edge of areas they can see well in. Areas in the south also clear cut and then burn to expedite the new growth. They have deer populations we only dream about. Yes they don't have the extreme weather we do but, they harvest alot of doe in areas and keep ratios in check. I'm all for logging of any kind, as here in NY where I am they don't allow it at all, and if you really want a discouraging season try hunting a forever wild area in the adirondacks!!
In my opinion,and no one has mentioned it. The moose tend to clean the prime browse up pretty quick to a level that the deer can't
reach.Not to say that's the problem but it contribute's. Also the cover that the typical winter yard provides from the element's and predation is not there.The food is there for the most part just a few of the other pieces of the puzzle are missing.I agree if done right logging is a great thing for wildlife but some of the clear cutting that has gone on is with only $$$$ in mind.
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We are starting to see the results of moose presences here. My brother works for DEC and in the moose river plains area this fall he saw alot more moose sign than deer. He did say the moose have cleaned areas up of browse. And that the deer had seemed to moved northwest to more suburban areas to find food.(more private property so logging going on)
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anyone notice a correlation between the number of trappers in your area and the number of coyotes that are running around?