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MyHuntingForum Main => General Hunting Discussion => Topic started by: brace on Oct 31, 2011, 07:15:12 AM
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Good Morning Folks,
***Warning - Rant to follow***
Last fall and early this spring I spent a fair amount of time reflagging my borders, future trails, etc. in preparation of having the woodlot at camp cut this winter. This property has been in the family for over 50 years and we had it surveyed 20 years ago to verify the property lines - So I'm pretty confident what's mine and what is not.
Well, after a morning of no deer and little sign I decided to hunt one of my seldom used stands down on the southeast corner of the woodlot. Heading down along the eastern perimeter line I noticed that my pink flagging had been replaced with red and blue flagging -- And, that the property line had moved, in some cases as much as 35 ft. Additionally, the adjacent property owner had "painted" the property line by chipping off the bark and spray painting directly on the wood on trees about every 20 ft. That was enough to get my blood boiling but in the process, they selected several mature maples and one really nice white ash. After doing some investigation, I couldn't make heads or tails out of his/her marking system and also found blue flagging tape 100 yards onto my property. Suffice it to say, my hunting was over...Back to camp I went and hopped into the truck and headed for the neighbors house. Unfortunately (or maybe fortunately) they weren't home.
Now, my eastern property line is a dead north/south line and this person somehow managed to turn it into a serpentine, claiming several nice stands of hardwood as being on their property. I don't think it was done by a professional surveyor, as I doubt they would have painted such nice trees - I have also found that usually they will swamp out the line pretty good and in this case that didn't happen. Time will tell...
Anyway, I'm heading back up this upcoming weekend and expect to have a nice conversation with my new neighbor. Not sure how I'm going to approach it, but I'm sure the neighbor's attitude will be a driving force.
Sorry for no pics - Left my camera at home.
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KTTDD's is in order here....people have such a "mine" syndrome when it comes to land.....I for sure would have the map with me when confronting them...surveyors usually have a good one of the lines....also find a rod and clear it out to show them where it is.....good luck...hope they don't cut all the hardwood for fire wood this week... :o :o :o
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That's messed up, I hope you get it straightened out.
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People are getting worse every year, that's a crappy way to end a hunt on your own land. Glad you found it before they cut it all on you though. Hope you get it straightened out without having to get into a border war.
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People are getting worse every year, that's a crappy way to end a hunt on your own land. Glad you found it before they cut it all on you though. Hope you get it straightened out without having to get into a border war.
Agreed, I have no interest in getting into a fight over this - In the big scheme it's probably not a huge deal and only effects 2/3 of an acre at most. Just wish we could have cleared up the issue before they painted trees.
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I agree 100% on defacing the trees, obviously an amateur/ignorant move. But I would try my best to stay on good terms with them. Having bad blood between neighbors never ends well, just turns into an ongoing series of issues.
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Had an incident with my neighbor Douglas 3 years ago. We haven't spoke to each other since. The turd deserved it though and I have no regrets. No issues since.
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Agreed, I have no interest in getting into a fight over this - In the big scheme it's probably not a huge deal and only effects 2/3 of an acre at most. Just wish we could have cleared up the issue before they painted trees.
May not be a big issue to you now, but border issues can certainly turn for the worse. If not now, perhaps much, much later. Best to deal with the issue NOW. If they did take down some of YOUR trees, they are liable to pay you for them.
I once looked at a large building lot. There was a land locked parcel behind it with a house on it. There was no deeded right of way and the drive way to the back lot went right through the middle of the parcel I was interested in. Directly in the location a house would go. They did have a deeded right of way on another lot, but didn't use it because the access through the parcel I was interested in was much easier to use/plow/etc...
Well, the owners of the parcel I was interested in had allowed the back lot to use that drive way for decades and because of this, no lawyer would touch the case. The town even sent many letters to the landlocked owners requesting them to stop using the undeeded driveway.. Needless to say, I walked away from the deal and found out other interested parties had walked from a deal on purchasing this land. Again, you may not think it's a big deal now, but if you or your heirs ever decide to sell, the interested parties could request a new survey and walk away from a potential deal if there still exists a border dispute...
And, as far as I know Pros don't hack up trees. They use marking tape or spray paint.
Good Luck. Let the authorities do their job.
NB
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I would be willing to bet they don't plan to Help you out with the taxes on the 2/3 acre's they have stolen from you. It's unacceptable Bud and don't sit for it. No need to go looking for a feud but stand your ground, Well I know you will. ;)
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May not be a big issue to you now, but border issues can certainly turn for the worse. If not now, perhaps much, much later. Best to deal with the issue NOW. If they did take down some of YOUR trees, they are liable to pay you for them.
Understood and agree 100% - I've dealt with trees getting cut by a neighbor several years ago. When I said "not a big deal", I was more suggesting that the property line can be worked out easily - They are clearly wrong and marking tape can easily be corrected. What really pissed me off was the trees getting hatcheted and painted - They probably won't die from it, but it won't do them any good either - And they it will be a constant reminder. Not sure what effect their actions will have on the value of that white ash, but that is something I may seek restitution on.
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I would be willing to bet they don't plan to Help you out with the taxes on the 2/3 acre's they have stolen from you. It's unacceptable Bud and don't sit for it. No need to go looking for a feud but stand your ground, Well I know you will. ;)
Thanks Harrie - I'll definately get it resolved.
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Not good. It will be interesting to see how their side of the story plays out.
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It can be cleared up with your deed, a surveyor, and a lawyer if need be. I wouldn't contact the neighbor directly. Do it legally, with a professional. They're good at it, and if the law is on your side, you will win and never have a problem again, at least with that neighbor.
Good luck.
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Good luck, and I think the best course of action has been stated. Find the pins, make sure you are right and then talk to the guy or have a lawyer do it for you. NYS has some pretty obscure laws and I wouldn't sit on it whatever you do.
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Brace is in Maine, "The way life should be". He's far enough north so most people still have manners, Most..............He should get this resolved without court or gunfire I bet. ;D ;D ;D
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Good Luck Brace. We had a similar problem last year, so I know what you are going thru.
I cut a road all around our propriety line and the guy who just purchased the property next to the farm I grew up on, used the road I cut to drive his ATV on to put up No Trespassing signs. There was several larger trees near the line I elected not to cut, he used those trees to nail up his signs even thou they were clearly on our side of the line.
The part the ticks me off the most was him driving his ATV on our property and tearing it up to put up signs to say " Stay the hell off my land" with his No Trespassing signs!!!
I did have a long chat with him as I showed him the survey maps and told him if he didn't know where the lines were I would gladly walk the lines with him. He told me he did that with the former owner, so he new exactly where the lines where. I would have like to have drop him right there, but new that wouldn't get me anywhere. I didn't have time this year, but I am going to cut down those trees right back to the line.
Here are a couple pictures of his destruction
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii213/coach04222/Hunting/img_1053.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii213/coach04222/Hunting/img_1056.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii213/coach04222/Hunting/img_1060.jpg)
(http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii213/coach04222/Hunting/img_1055.jpg)
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there are not to many left that have manners....see more and more idiots out there....hope this gets resolved for everyone.......and manners start to come back to our world where they belong
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brian, might be a good idea to ask a sherrif or warden to accompany you when you go talk to him. not just to controll the situation but as a witness. hes not as likely to go off on you w/ the law there. good luck!
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Good post. I try to be polite at work. [self-employed, public service related] Try to help people and they get impatient, holler, bitch and complain. Everyone is in a hurry. sux
yeah me too but I am always trying to be polite everywhere and it just amazes me that people would rather I bitch, hollar and complain back at them,......I wont let that happen because I wasnt raised to be a rotten person....I was raised with values and a smack on the bumster.....didnt hurt me a bit.....and taught me respect
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if they do "steal" your timber they are liable to pay you 3x the highest veneer price which for maple could get you a pretty penny, hope you get it worked out and the axe marks on the trees are blazes and shoulldnt affect the quality of your trees as long as there not deep wound good luck with your battle
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Good post. I try to be polite at work. [self-employed, public service related] Try to help people and they get impatient, holler, bitch and complain. Everyone is in a hurry. sux
They all think their entitled Rusty, Why do for your self when you can get soneone else to do it. You should come south 300 mile's and give public service a try. :o :o :o ;D ;D
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I'll be in for a dose of the woods in a week. ;)
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wow Coach thats lame. Is he an Anti or just wants the land to himself. If he is gonna post "his" property then why the hell is he on yours. I can't find the lodgic there. I try hard to avoid the police but, man call the boys in Green.
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Hey Folks,
Well, I did some further investigation and it seems the land was surveyed by a professional - Found his name on the corner posts. I'll be calling him tomorrow, although the issue isn't quite as bad as I initially thought - Still not happy, but I thought it was much worse last weekend.
Having said that, here's what really pisses me off:
This is a picture of his Northwestestern boundary marker, taken from the adjacent landowners property looking into my property. Notice the boundary marker compared to the notched/painted tree - Even under his calculations he's painting my trees.
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu313/brian_race/2011%20Camp/005-1.jpg).
Here's the southwestern boundary marker - Again taken from the adjacent landowners property looking into my property. Again he has painted a tree on my side of the boundary marker.
(http://i659.photobucket.com/albums/uu313/brian_race/2011%20Camp/006-1.jpg)
This painting of trees on my side of the boundary markers takes place the entire property line...
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>:(
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Get'em!! Not a very professional job....I bet the homeowner did the trees...never had a surveyor paint trees....just use rods and flagging... >:(
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Get'em!! Not a very professional job....I bet the homeowner did the trees...never had a surveyor paint trees....just use rods and flagging... >:(
I agree with upstate, I can't imagine a surveyor blazing trees to mark a line anymore, I've worked part time for a land surveyor and the most we have ever done is flag lines. The law only calls for pins to be placed at the corners. I'm sure the land owner was behind the blazes, but on the other hand I find it strange that your neigbhor had the land surveyed and the surveryor never tried to get into touch with you. Whenever the surveyor I worked for started a new job he always sent letters out in the mail to neighbors before we started field work and most of the time spoke with adjacent landowners to get their opinions of where the lines sat, as well as any relevant data such as former surveys ect that made our job just a little bit easier. I would speak with the land owner with a officer/game warden and or a state forester, as it is ultimately timber trespass is their jurisdiction present as others have said and depending on how the situation goes I wouldn't hesitate to get your restitution under state law, which is 3x the highest veneer price.
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Got a call back this morning from the surveying company that handled my neighbor's property lines - The General Manager was very pleasant, albeit not particularly helpful with my questions. Waiting on a call back from the surveyor himself.